Positionals

[RinaB]

Ok so before I get started I main a tank and have been leveling a dragoon. Ff14 is based around dodging aoes, boss position aoes, avoiding eye blasts etc etc its all aoes. Positionals are incredibly awkward and bad when the mechanics are based around avoidance. Let's not kid ourselves and start talking about how "well the tank needs to do xyz and position xyz" when 95% of players do not run with statics and only guild members and even then a lot of aoes in this game spawn at random spots around the boss. Take the second boss in dohn mheg for example. As a DRG you have no choice but to eat the lower potency of your abilities regardless of where the tank has him facing because of the tethers. Its a really bad idea for melee to have positionals in a game that clearly doesn't support it. As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee I have to hike around and pick sides? Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem. In big pulls tanks need to jump around aoeing and avoiding aoes so what does that do for melee? Ruins your dps contribution and that effects your whole group. Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

[ItMe]

Would you be happier if True North was expanded/enhanced?
Or do you feel they are wholly without merit?

[IruruCece]

Positionals actually add something to gameplay, otherwise we'd just be sitting in one spot waiting for AoEs to avoid like a group of melee-range black mages. For Dragoons, which don't actually have that many positionals to begin with, you should be able to consistently land them with practice.

[Frizze]

So unless im mistaken, there are no AoEs with positionals. So in big pulls it doesnt matter, because you should be using your AoEs. As for general combat, positionals arent as bad as you seem to think. Ideally you set yourself up at the border where the flank meets the rear position. You can then switch positions with a single step left or right. Need to dodge? If its a targetted ability then the other side of the boss(left versus right) will be out of the way a lot of the time because of how big bosses are. If its a point blank, you need to go out regardless(and if its a donut youre probly already close enough). And unlike a class with a casting time, you can move during the cycling of your GCD so those 2+ seconds will almost always be plenty of time to get where you need to go. You use the example of the plant boss in dohn mheg. What you dont consider is that you only need to be covering your tether when it gets snapshotted at the end of the cast. Doing one quick positional attack before moving to block wont cause this boss to fail.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

No. Your request has been denied.

[Tizzy_Tormentor]

You hit as many positionals as you are able, if you are unable to hit the rear/flank for any reason, you can use True North, that's what its for. If True North isn't up and you can't hit the rear/flank, that's cool, just try get it next time, missing a few positionals isn't the end of the world.

You are suggesting they remove an entire gameplay element because it's mildly inconvenient to you, but for me and a lot of players who actually enjoy melee, they are what really make the difference between a good player and a great player, I see plenty of melee ignore positionals as it is, the game would only stand to lose from their removal, they wouldn't add anything in its place, so it would just make the melee less engaging because now I can just stand there stringing my combo along without any thought whatsoever, having to reposition for my attacks adds depth to the role.

Also in big pulls, there are no positionals, you mostly just clump as many enemies together as you can so they can hit everything, melee can stand in AoE during big pulls and heal it off with bloodbath if necessary.

[Satarn]

Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem.

Removing any remotely difficult mechanics from tanks just because the lowest common denominator can't handle them, is the exact reason why tanking in 5.0 is such an unengaging garbage. You barely need to position as it is with all the teleporting and auto-facing bosses and you would like to dumb it down even further?
Lowering the skill requirement for tanks yet again isn't going to make the general playerbase any better - they will just drop to whatever new bare minimum you set, just like how plenty of tanks keep failing now, despite tanking being so much easier in SHB than ever before.

What's worse, you'd like to make tanking easier by taking away a mechanic from melee DPS. Making sure you can dodge everything while hitting positionals is part of melee optimization, just like keeping your melee uptime. Sure, there are some fights in which it might be sometimes impossible despite using tools and the tank positioning well, but that's on devs to design fights better(btw teleporting and locking bosses in place to "help" tanks is actually making it worse) and honestly losing melee uptime entirely due to fight's design is usually more likely than missing positionals. Does that mean all attacks should become ranged then?

Also it's funny how you bring up a dungeon boss, as if missing positionals was even remotely close to making or breaking a fight in casual content. Missing a couple isn't even going to matter whatsoever in savage.

[CKNovel]

[...]Ff14 is based around dodging aoes[...] Take the second boss in dohn mheg for example. [...] positionals in a game that clearly doesn't support it [...]. As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee [...] In big pulls [...] Please get rid of positionals, they're garbage.[...]

Yes, officer. This one, right here.

Dungeon content is not designed for optimal play but more for fun and learning at your own pace.
Plus, in "big pulls" as you say, you have AoE combo that doesn't have positionnals. And if you mono-target combo in a big pull, I'm calling the police.
Plus, you have this neat action called True North that allows you to strike from any positionnal and getting the highest potency.
Plus, you are talking about dungeon content. You can easily take an AoE or two and survive. You even have Bloodbath to get some healing during "big pulls". MCH has to stand in some AoE due to Flamethrower requiring the player to not move at all. And your healer won't even have to care about you.

This is a git gud situation. No offense, but you lack experience in content and using dungeon content as an example for removing positionnals is like removing a rule in football because juniors struggles with it.
I never heard of that so far, you can imagine if we would balance sports based on juniors experience, it would be absolute chaos.

The game supports very well positionnals, it's just that (no offense, again) yourself can't support it.

[ItMe]

Dungeon content is not designed for optimal play but more for fun and learning at your own pace.
[...]
This is a git gud situation.

Most definitely.
Like, the necromancer and water-boy minibosses have def helped me step up my tank game as far as practicing keeping-the-bosses-ass-pointed-at-the-DPS is concerned.

[Payadopa]

You hit as many positionals as you are able, if you are unable to hit the rear/flank for any reason, you can use True North, that's what its for. If True North isn't up and you can't hit the rear/flank, that's cool, just try get it next time, missing a few positionals isn't the end of the world.

Yep. I see it as something I can strive for to do better. Please don't make the combat more boring. I mean, what would change if you aren't using your positionals correctly? The boss takes a few minutes longer. Who cares.

I propose, everyone who wants something removed must also add something the achieve cosmic balance. lol