Positionals

[currentlemon]

Simplifying the game's mechanics by removing positional skills is a bad idea. If SE were to do that, the uproar would be either just as bad or worse than the dumbing down of Tank and Healer jobs in this expansion. I say that because most of the player base plays DPS jobs.

[Undeadfire]

Fair enough cheers for correction, it's been years so the memory is hazy.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Look, I do it* from behind and enjoy it. Positionals are fun.






*DPS

[DelaiRelay]

I like the positional mechanic. Also from an immersion pov where attacking someone in the back or side, could do more damage. But imo that should be something special, not every single target attack.

Monk positionals are just a bit too repetitive because they are part of the rotation. This makes it feel gimmicky to me. What makes it worse, is that when you are on your own, they just feel like a stupid penalty you can't shake off.

I rather see fewer positional skill(s) outside your rotation that then require a specific position to have maximum effect. Maybe having the rotation work your way up to that so that they become available, or increase the effect of them. Or after using certain utility skills (Stun and then a positional for max effect). Anyway, something that can be used when on your own too.

But the way it works now is just bit boring imo. With Monk it kind of makes it feel like a chore.

[Jirah]

Monk positionals are just a bit too repetitive because they are part of the rotation. This makes it feel gimmicky to me. What makes it worse, is that when you are on your own, they just feel like a stupid penalty you can't shake off..

For one soloed instances are rare and far between that its impossible to struggle with any, I do agree i wish Demo and Twin werent tied to postionals but MNK has ways to accommodate like Riddle of earth

[ssunny2008]

I rather see fewer positional skill(s) outside your rotation that then require a specific position to have maximum effect. Maybe having the rotation work your way up to that so that they become available, or increase the effect of them. Or after using certain utility skills (Stun and then a positional for max effect). Anyway, something that can be used when on your own too.

First of all, everything is going to be repetitive in a "rotation-game". It´s up to the boss mechanics to force the player to adjust and to offer a different experience / enjoyment.

What you´ve written down doesn´t make so much sense in practice. What if the positional skill comes up, but you can´t use it because you stuck somewhere else thx to the current boss mechanic? It would be a hard damage loss. Same if you rework some skills or give them multiple positional-effects. Either ppl will ignore positionals, because you´ll get an effect whatever you do, or one of the effects will be stronger than the other. On the other hand you could give e.g. demolish 2 dots to keep up, one from the side and one from the back. But i can´t imagine anyone wants that.

If you´re on your own, you could use a chocobo with the tank-stance. It works great. After level X, you can make use of Riddle of Earth or True North to get ride of the positional requirements. Monk has enough burst potential for adds anyway.
And keep in mind that the potency from positionals aren´t that big. The only bad thing is probably to lose the 100 crit on Bootshine, but that´s it. Monk positionals are nothing which stops from leveling or soloplay in any way. There are way worse jobs without any requirements, which plays "hmmmmm" if you´re alone. (As bard you wait for your dots to do the job. SAM, who is losing a lot of Kenki and getting your buffs take like ages especially to kill add groups. And finally if Midare comes up, the enemy is already dead. Etc...)

[Naoki34]

The positional is fun and allows dynamic gameplay, if you don't like it, go play BRD, MCH, etc.

If you like melee play, learn how to manage positional, in the end, you will at least take some pride in taming the game and not complain & want to change because you don't like it.

There are now 2 stacks at true north, there's not even reason to complain anymore that you can't properly exploit your offensive CDs.
Learn how to play!

Change your mentality, instead of complaining, master your job and in any case, it's not you who decides the devs.

Ps: Playing Dragoon is disconcertingly easy and boring from my point of view.
It's just a loop of 2 long combo's, there's no more no brain in my opinion. The job with the least interest in melee Dragoon in my opinion.

Do you think it's hard in Dragoon ? Try Monk or Ninja, you'll get a different opinion. Although in the end no job is hard, the logic is more or less the same, except that some jobs require you to keep a buff or debuff active.
Ninja is not hard, you just have to get it out of your head that a melee just has to hit in a melee, many complain because this or that is not the way they want it.

"Free your mind, Neo."

[Sqwall]

Is what makes a melee class "fun" based on positionals.

I'm hard pressed to say NO!

Positionals are stupid, and I for one would not think twice if I saw it in any patch notes to have them removed.

I love running Delebrum just for the sole purpose to chill on my monk and just beat the crap out of the bosses. They don't have positionals at all noted by the full circle target marker. No need to pop true north, I can pop RoE for damage reduction, use Six Sided Star to get me out of trouble. Monk is a BLAST to play without positionals. Some people should really try it.

I can focus on the AOE, and mechanics vs. where I need to be to get more DPS. I have WAY more fun just watching the fight while my muscle memory kicks in just completing my rotation, as i'm watching the cast bar, the aoe's, and Party member list.

Postionals aren't deep when your skills aren't gated behind them....they are just annoying given boss mechanics.

Get rid of them... and implement something more unique.


OK OK...I know i'm upsetting many....fine. I would OK with Dragon Kick and Bootshine being the only positionals required. Dragon Kick must be used on flank to grant leaden fist. Bootshine must be used from back to grant a critical hit. This would free me up much more and less of a penalty to just staying on the boss if an aoe is where I need to stand to gain a bonus, but I still have some strategy to my job.

I would love if fists of wind removed run speed and was replaced with removes positional requirements. GIVE ME THAT CHOICE!

[wereotter]

I love running Delebrum just for the sole purpose to chill on my monk and just beat the crap out of the bosses. They don't have positionals at all noted by the full circle target marker. No need to pop true north, I can pop RoE for damage reduction, use Six Sided Star to get me out of trouble. Monk is a BLAST to play without positionals. Some people should really try it.

I have... in the farming of pottery for my relics. And as someone who has been a melee DPS main since ARR, it's boring.

And as we mentioned to you in the monk thread, the job has 3 stacks of Riddle of Earth and 2 of True North. Situations wherein you are forced to hit from a different position than the mechanics of a fight allow you to do are able to be accommodated. Wanting them eliminated because you don't do them in the first place is just becase of the laziness or "you don't pay my sub" mindset. Positionals are all monk has at this point. It's already the most hollowed out and mindless melee job in the game, if you can't wrap your head around the one mechanic the job has, then it's not the job for you.

As to the original post... all I can say is I hope that as a tank main this now reinforces to them the importance of holding a boss still, and why melee DPS players pull their hair out when a tank decides they need to spin it or move around a lot.

[ssunny2008]

I can focus on the AOE, and mechanics vs. where I need to be to get more DPS. I have WAY more fun just watching the fight while my muscle memory kicks in just completing my rotation, as i'm watching the cast bar, the aoe's, and Party member list.

Imagine lots of players can focus on any boss mechanics, are able to adjust to everything and bring lots of DPS to the party, meanwhile playing positionals all day long. And how do they do that? They practice and improve!
It´s not even like any boss is completely random. All follow a pattern you can remember, so you don´t even have to watch at the castbar 24/7. And you´re a DD... why do you look at the group list? Have i missed the insane monkheals and shields you can throw on the others? And the damage reduction from RoE is a joke. It´s only made for soloplay in the first case. All what you want from RoE is the short window for 1 or 2 skills you clearly can´t hit on position. Those short windows where TN would be completey wasted. No serious monk is going to use RoE to assist the healers. They´ve to heal 5 other party members anyway.

Get rid of them... and implement something more unique.

There is nothing more unique than playing positionals in such a static game, where the "uniqueness" of jobs comes from random proccs or stacks you gain via 123 or being infight for X seconds to be able to press another button.

OK OK...I know i'm upsetting many....fine. I would OK with Dragon Kick and Bootshine being the only positionals required. Dragon Kick must be used on flank to grant leaden fist. Bootshine must be used from back to grant a critical hit. This would free me up much more and less of a penalty to just staying on the boss if an aoe is where I need to stand to gain a bonus, but I still have some strategy to my job.

No, it would be boring and probably even more annoying to play for you in the end. The job is fast and has the same combo with some adjustments in each rotation. You can easily forget those 2 positionals to play. It´s actually way easier to get used to them permanently. It´s going to be a self-runner thx to muscle-memory or whatever.

I would love if fists of wind removed run speed and was replaced with removes positional requirements. GIVE ME THAT CHOICE!

I can´t understand that. So you would stuck in FoW and losing the 10% damage of FoF. The same 10% you´re going to lose when you ignore positionals pretty much and stay 24/7 behind the boss. You could even ignore the demolish timer and go for 3 skills in the back, 3 skills from the side permanently. The ~6 seconds you lose from demolish are a joke in damage then.
It makes no sense, just ignore them and stop your campaign here?!

Really... stop trolling. You´re that perfect example of a casual, who doesn´t want to improve, who is not even looking at the endgame, who just runs around like yolo and if you die you spam the chat with "ups sry, my bad, rezz please". And that´s not even a bad thing. The bad thing is that you come up like "Ühhh too hard, ühhh don´t like, ühhh please change.", just to cater your own unwillingness to play the game as its meant to be played. (What thousands or even millions of others do and enjoy!)
Good that the gaming industry is so smart and dumb down every game into nowhere, take tons of cosmetics or QoL features out of games and put them into lootboxes, cashshops and DLC´s to catch your money. Just because you don´t want to improve or beat that hard boss, nono... you want your stuff now right? You want "your fun?" Maybe SE should sell positional protection for 5 bucks per hour. They´re going to make millions with guys like you, i promise!