Positionals

[Ralph2449]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

[Fendred]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

In my case, I was just kind of miffed by the X factor that certain bosses throw into the mix. Every job has to deal with some amount of X-factor, or things outside their control that may not be fun or satisfying. Monk's have a fun design that works a good chunk of the time, but has more X-factors playing against it than most because of that design. I'm really happy they helped shave a bit of that off the class by giving us a static haste buff over the whole stacking stuff that can fall off (new vs old greased lightning).

[Drakanous]

They're a pain sometimes, but pretty easy to deal with. In raids it's kind of a mini game to figure out how to get them off while still doing the mechanics properly. Unless you're in tile phase of E9S, in which case, don't bother lol. I wouldn't mind them getting rid of them because as far as "interesting mechanics" go, it's really far down on the list for me and they keep giving us more skill to nullify them outright. I'd prefer they add more fight movement and focusing on uptime rather than otherwise arbitrary positionals.

[Kolsykol]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

It doesn't feel good to miss them but that's kinda the point.
But others have other things that are quite similar, for example if you don't pay attention to Huton on Ninja and then the boss goes away or there's some phase where you're stunned etc and your Huton falls off.
Samurai's rotation falls off sync pretty easily if you're away from the boss too, Monk really doesn't suffer much anymore with GL being a passive at worst our Twin Snakes falls off which isn't a big deal at all and you have the ability nobody likes by the name of Anatman.
You can also just Form Shift.

With casters it's even worse, there's so much movement in the game I think it's way harder for casters to maximize their output.
Missed positional > interrupted and not casting.

[ssunny2008]

Sry i don´t want to quote X posts.

POSITIONALS ON MONK ARE FINE!

The core reason why SAM is the most played class doesn´t come with the limited positionals. It´s the damage and overall kit. Not any other class is so easy and forgivable with a perfect dodge/dash kit and the possibility to adjust your rotation at any time thx to the lengths of buffs. On top of that it´s the strongest DPS and i would call it even broken compared to others. Only the BLM is able to do more dmg, but that is behind far more restrictions and based on circumstances.
DRG on the other hand is a starter class as MNK is. He´s easy to play, has the best background, sick animations and strong buffs. Ofc there is still NIN, but i highly doubt that the most players will change on level 10. I don´t even like the animations and other probably dislike the ninjutsu.

That said, there are actually 4 melee classes for everyone, for different tastes:

You love the feeling of smashing everything into the ground easily? You need that self-convinience of being powerful without that much efford? Play SAM.
You love to jump around like a badass or being that troll who backjump from the platform to wipe your raid and pressing 12345678 between that? Play DRG.
You want to be that sneaky assassin with more movement speed and being Naruto who has an answer for every situation? Play NIN.
You are sleepy and need something to hurry to actually wake up and get feel of doing more than 123? You may love the streetfighter series? Play MNK.

Choose your path, there is enough variaty for any taste and DEFINATELY NO NEED TO CHANGE ANYTHING in the core. (Only SAM needs definately a nerf.)

And well... Iru is right. MNK got way more braindead with the big "rework" and now ppl complain about the last aspect you´ve to care about... positionals. It´s ridiculous. I can just say it again, stop trying to take the fun from others away from the game. You don´t want to play permanent positionals? Choose one of the other 3 melees or anything else than MNK. FF14 offers a lot for everyone and yes there are players who play MNK because of them. Because it´s more fun and engaging.
And not every class needs the same amount of players who use them. If 50% of all players use SAM for some obvious reason and only 2% MNK, who cares? Pretty much everyone eat an original italian pizza too, but probably only 10% love one with salami. Do we need to get ride of the salami now to cater the other 90%, when there is an original pizza already? Common guys...

[Ralph2449]

It doesn't feel good to miss them but that's kinda the point

But that isnt really a reason to remove something, especially something like positionals that is something you slowly improve throughout repeating an encounter, yeah you might not manage to hit all of them but the game does not ask your nor does it require you to always get your positionals 100% of the time

Maybe look at the cause of that feeling, why do you feel you MUST minmax everything and if that doesnt happen you feel bad when nobody but you have placed this unrealistic expectation on yourself.

[Nothv13]

But that isnt really a reason to remove something, especially something like positionals that is something you slowly improve throughout repeating an encounter, yeah you might not manage to hit all of them but the game does not ask your nor does it require you to always get your positionals 100% of the time

Maybe look at the cause of that feeling, why do you feel you MUST minmax everything and if that doesnt happen you feel bad when nobody but you have placed this unrealistic expectation on yourself.

So they are ultimately pointless, add nothing but more movement that can be completely ruined by numerous things outside of your control.

[IruruCece]

So they are ultimately pointless, add nothing but more movement that can be completely ruined by numerous things outside of your control.

Better players can and do land more positionals more often than people who don't even play the job, or people who aren't as skilled at the job or a given fight. Landing positionals more consistently results in higher DPS, results in better overall performance for the raid because the boss/mob will die faster. As it is with anything about this game, players who engage with the mechanics can and often do outperform those who refuse to engage with said mechanics outside of forums posts where they declare that those things are worthless and that they shouldn't be punished for not trying to play better.

A Black Mage will be forced to move because of mechanics that they have no control over, potentially messing up their burst phase or even costing them enochian. Should they now be allowed to cast everything on the move?

A Bard might miss refreshing DOTs because they died to mechanics outside of their control. Should dots never expire now?

A Dancer's Technical Step might not hit the boss because they were forced out of range. Should Technical Step now have unlimited range in boss arenas?

Of course not. That would be ridiculous. The answer isn't to make things easier for players who make mistakes, either because they were forced or they play poorly. The player should get better at playing the game, or learn to mitigate the things outside of their control. That's what makes the different between the average monk and a good one. They can't land every positional, but they can land more of them even under duress than a less experienced or less skilled player. It's called practice.

[Nothv13]

Better players can and do land more positionals more often than people who don't even play the job, or people who aren't as skilled at the job or a given fight. Landing positionals more consistently results in higher DPS, results in better overall performance for the raid because the boss/mob will die faster. As it is with anything about this game, players who engage with the mechanics can and often do outperform those who refuse to engage with said mechanics outside of forums posts where they declare that those things are worthless and that they shouldn't be punished for not trying to play better.

A Black Mage will be forced to move because of mechanics that they have no control over, potentially messing up their burst phase or even costing them enochian. Should they now be allowed to cast everything on the move?

A Bard might miss refreshing DOTs because they died to mechanics outside of their control. Should dots never expire now?

A Dancer's Technical Step might not hit the boss because they were forced out of range. Should Technical Step now have unlimited range in boss arenas?

Of course not. That would be ridiculous. The answer isn't to make things easier for players who make mistakes, either because they were forced or they play poorly. The player should get better at playing the game, or learn to mitigate the things outside of their control. That's what makes the different between the average monk and a good one. They can't land every positional, but they can land more of them even under duress than a less experienced or less skilled player. It's called practice.

They've been constantly lowering the cooldown and even added charges to true north. They even gave monk, essentially a second true north. Its almost to the point that true north just serves as an additional button for something so inconsequential. They've also lowered the potency differences.

All classes have something that throws them off, however, MDPS have all those you listed, along with positionals, short range (their ranged abilities break combo), and in general more strict rotations. Also bad things other players do will typically effect the MDPS more. Tank doesn't move the boss out of the aoe (tanks its out of it though)? so long positionals, ranged doesn't stay in reasonable range and the boss leaps to them? Whelp there's GCDS lost and combo potentially lost. Without the positionals they'd still have nearly all those things to worry about, and movement required (in most fights) would still effect them more than ranged.

[ssunny2008]

They've been constantly lowering the cooldown and even added charges to true north. They even gave monk, essentially a second true north. Its almost to the point that true north just serves as an additional button for something so inconsequential. They've also lowered the potency differences.

All classes have something that throws them off, however, MDPS have all those you listed, along with positionals, short range (their ranged abilities break combo), and in general more strict rotations. Also bad things other players do will typically effect the MDPS more. Tank doesn't move the boss out of the aoe (tanks its out of it though)? so long positionals, ranged doesn't stay in reasonable range and the boss leaps to them? Whelp there's GCDS lost and combo potentially lost. Without the positionals they'd still have nearly all those things to worry about, and movement required (in most fights) would still effect them more than ranged.

The game is way too forgivable in a lot of ways and this is pretty much the core reason "why noone improves anymore".

- Shared TB? Invul.
- Boss is not in the middle? Np, he´ll port at the next mechanic.
- You wiped in 99% of the content of the game? Here "click easy mode" or you´ll get a straight up buff each restart anyway.
- Positional potencies? Who cares about them on DRG / NIN. You could even stuck behind the boss as MNK and do about 10% less damage. Still enough to beat the current E9-E11s, maybe even E12s if the other DPS know their job.
- You´re double lefthanded and blind on one eye? Here is a DNC for you.
- A handful of bosses don´t even have any positional requirements.

The list goes on. And in all cases, Melee and Caster still have a comfortzone in DPS. Phys. ranged don´t have them thx to the "i don´t care" factor. The game got dumb´d down enough and more than enough players proved that positionals are no issues as much as casting times are. You just practice a boss fight and get used to it. TN and RoE are for such badass mechanics where you clearly can´t play positionals. So what´s the point?

Imagine the game will get dumb´d down more and more. BLM will get less casting times, positionals will be removed, healer can instarezz permanently, whatever. Would be funny to see how it´s going on when the so called "elitists" have nothing even near challenging left and leave the game. No more guides, no more balance discord or other stuff "lazy players" can rely on. Could be really funny to see how things going nuts.

It´s up to the player to improve, not to the game to become easier unless it´s absolutely unplayable, which is definately not the case here.