Positionals

[IruruCece]

The most valuable aspect to this discussion for me is that it pretty much confirms that the change to Greased Lightning was poorly conceived on every possible level. Now Monk is "too fast" and positionals are "too hard" or "annoying" for some players as a result, on top of the rest of the kit still being a garbage fire dating back to poorly conceived systems from ARR, stacked on another garbage fire of changes from Stormblood, stacked on yet another garbage fire that is pretty much everything related to 5.X. I'd rather SE left well enough alone if they were going to failblog into an absolute nothing of a change near the tail end of an expansion. At this rate I don't think there's even any real value in learning the ins and outs of the job right now, because there's no way to guarantee that 6.0 Monk will even resemble what it was beforehand.

[Kolsykol]

Why would Monk be '' too fast '' now after GL was made into a passive?
We had it before, it makes no logical sense.
If it's '' too fast '' now then it was before too.
No offense but sometimes when I read people talking about Monks I get the sense that people don't play it.

And if people think that Monk is too fast then there are other Jobs to play, I really have a hard time believing that people who have actively played Monk for years ( I've played it since ARR, Pug was my starting Job ) wants Monk to be slower.
Monk being fast paced is literally one of the main selling points.
I really don't sympathize at all with the whole '' it's too hard and annoying '' either, again it just sounds to me like the job isn't for you then which is totally fine not every job needs to be for you.

I guess that my only real problem with it is that it could feel more rewarding.
The Bootshine guarantee crit for example feels rewarding, but most of the others are just like 30 extra potency.
In a potential rework it'd be cool if they made it a bit more interesting.
Sure it'd suck more to miss positional tho, but again it's part of the Job fantasy and being rewarded for playing properly feels good.
I don't think that Monk is even difficult to play, but I empathize with the fact that not everyone enjoys and/ or is capable of playing fast and keeping up.
But at the same time I don't see why that means that every single Job needs to be slower, there are people who enjoy the fast pace who wants something to play too.

But I dunno... I've always had a great distaste for this whole thing about '' I don't like something so it needs to fundamentally change '' when you already have other options available to you.
It's the same with people who don't like certain character designs and try to get them changed instead of playing something they like and letting people have things they like too.
Like it's not just about you.
And we're talking about some pretty fundamental things about Monk here in terms of the Job fantasy and gameplay.
To me it's sorta like arguing that BLM needs to be more mobile because positioning is '' too hard and frustrating '', when it's just not part of the Job fantasy at all and you have that in Red Mage.

Edit: Too be clear, not directed at Iruru in particular but just in general.

[Ralph2449]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

[Fendred]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

In my case, I was just kind of miffed by the X factor that certain bosses throw into the mix. Every job has to deal with some amount of X-factor, or things outside their control that may not be fun or satisfying. Monk's have a fun design that works a good chunk of the time, but has more X-factors playing against it than most because of that design. I'm really happy they helped shave a bit of that off the class by giving us a static haste buff over the whole stacking stuff that can fall off (new vs old greased lightning).

[Kolsykol]

Why is the op and some people acting as if not getting the positional bonus is a death sentence?

I like positionals as they are a nice small thing to optimize personally, though clearly affects some classes more than others, but at the end of the day the world will not end if you don’t manage to have perfect positionals. You will steal beat the encounter if everything else is done right, and next time you can try improve even more.

No mmorpg balances around perfectly optimized everything because then nobody but computers would beat encounters.(though some more deluded elitists do like to tell themselves how perfect;ly optimized they have to be to do X else it’s impossible)

It doesn't feel good to miss them but that's kinda the point.
But others have other things that are quite similar, for example if you don't pay attention to Huton on Ninja and then the boss goes away or there's some phase where you're stunned etc and your Huton falls off.
Samurai's rotation falls off sync pretty easily if you're away from the boss too, Monk really doesn't suffer much anymore with GL being a passive at worst our Twin Snakes falls off which isn't a big deal at all and you have the ability nobody likes by the name of Anatman.
You can also just Form Shift.

With casters it's even worse, there's so much movement in the game I think it's way harder for casters to maximize their output.
Missed positional > interrupted and not casting.

[Ralph2449]

It doesn't feel good to miss them but that's kinda the point

But that isnt really a reason to remove something, especially something like positionals that is something you slowly improve throughout repeating an encounter, yeah you might not manage to hit all of them but the game does not ask your nor does it require you to always get your positionals 100% of the time

Maybe look at the cause of that feeling, why do you feel you MUST minmax everything and if that doesnt happen you feel bad when nobody but you have placed this unrealistic expectation on yourself.

[Nothv13]

But that isnt really a reason to remove something, especially something like positionals that is something you slowly improve throughout repeating an encounter, yeah you might not manage to hit all of them but the game does not ask your nor does it require you to always get your positionals 100% of the time

Maybe look at the cause of that feeling, why do you feel you MUST minmax everything and if that doesnt happen you feel bad when nobody but you have placed this unrealistic expectation on yourself.

So they are ultimately pointless, add nothing but more movement that can be completely ruined by numerous things outside of your control.

[IruruCece]

So they are ultimately pointless, add nothing but more movement that can be completely ruined by numerous things outside of your control.

Better players can and do land more positionals more often than people who don't even play the job, or people who aren't as skilled at the job or a given fight. Landing positionals more consistently results in higher DPS, results in better overall performance for the raid because the boss/mob will die faster. As it is with anything about this game, players who engage with the mechanics can and often do outperform those who refuse to engage with said mechanics outside of forums posts where they declare that those things are worthless and that they shouldn't be punished for not trying to play better.

A Black Mage will be forced to move because of mechanics that they have no control over, potentially messing up their burst phase or even costing them enochian. Should they now be allowed to cast everything on the move?

A Bard might miss refreshing DOTs because they died to mechanics outside of their control. Should dots never expire now?

A Dancer's Technical Step might not hit the boss because they were forced out of range. Should Technical Step now have unlimited range in boss arenas?

Of course not. That would be ridiculous. The answer isn't to make things easier for players who make mistakes, either because they were forced or they play poorly. The player should get better at playing the game, or learn to mitigate the things outside of their control. That's what makes the different between the average monk and a good one. They can't land every positional, but they can land more of them even under duress than a less experienced or less skilled player. It's called practice.

[Ralph2449]

So they are ultimately pointless, add nothing but more movement that can be completely ruined by numerous things outside of your control.

I would absolutely not say that, it is a nice small challenge to try to optimize when it is possible throughout an encounter, improving between each pull. The fact that it isnt as impactful is also good because it turns it into a personal challenge rather than a "OMG I MUST DO THIS OR MY DPS HALVES!!"

So again not being able to get positionals 100% of the time doesnt hurt anyone, if a person is so annoyed they cant do that then they should look inwards, it isnt the game's problem to fix, it is theirs.

[Drakanous]

They're a pain sometimes, but pretty easy to deal with. In raids it's kind of a mini game to figure out how to get them off while still doing the mechanics properly. Unless you're in tile phase of E9S, in which case, don't bother lol. I wouldn't mind them getting rid of them because as far as "interesting mechanics" go, it's really far down on the list for me and they keep giving us more skill to nullify them outright. I'd prefer they add more fight movement and focusing on uptime rather than otherwise arbitrary positionals.