Is It Even Still Possible (The Rejoining)

[quotey]

Lots of people thought after the first Eden tier that the Ascians would try to use it to restore the Thirteenth to a reasonable state. Maybe that could still happen in the future, I suppose.

[SannaR]

Then we have an assumed WoL go against Hydelean in the Ivalice raids where the last boss of Rabanaster at one point agreed to take an auracite made by Ultima. Any other primal's tempering most likely wouldn't have allowed that to be a possibility.

Sure, Zodiark is powerful yet even he needed a 2nd shot of souls to boost the ecosystem.

[YianKutku]

You forgot Alexander, he sacrificed himself because he knew that a perfect world would be impossible with him in it (as he would drain the world barren just by existing). There is also whether the tempering was intentional or not, like with Ramuh.

Technically Alexander is still around (and clogging up the Tipped Ewer), but he did kind of shut himself off from the whole world and its happenings, in a sort of stasis bubble. It's a sacrifice of presence and action, since I don't think Alexander can self-terminate, so he did the next best thing of shutting himself away.

On the topic of whether Zodiark could grant the Ascians' request to resurrect their fallen comrades, that's very hard to say. We don't know the full extent of Zodiark's power. We also don't know anything at all about his personality, and whether he'd be the sort to lie to his summoners for some unknown personal agenda. The Ascians clearly believe he can do it. Their reasons might be baseless (lies by Zodiark, or Tempering-inspired exaggeration of their deity's power), or grounded (they did create the guy, after all, and might actually know what he's capable of).

My completely unsupported speculation is that the primary mechanism for bringing back the sacrificed Ancients is not so much Zodiark being a wish-granting machine, but rather offering up the aether of the life that grew after the Final Days as a substitute for what Zodiark had taken from the Ancients. Sort of like offering a replacement bundle of aether and getting the previous sacrifices back.

Still, one question that hasn't really been answered either way (whether my speculation is the case, or if it's just another sacrificial offering to the Zodiark genie) is how this would affect the environment of the world, given the Amaurotines had to sacrifice a quarter of their number (half of the remainder) just to restore the world after the Final Days.

Then we have an assumed WoL go against Hydelean in the Ivalice raids where the last boss of Rabanaster at one point agreed to take an auracite made by Ultima. Any other primal's tempering most likely wouldn't have allowed that to be a possibility.

The example I use is how Saint Ajora was a WoL, but unsealed Ultima anyway for personal gain. And the unsealing of Ultima was undeniably a bad thing for everyone else, so it can't even be spun into some sort of rebellion.

[Slatersev]

This question was actually answered in the Final Role Quest that unlocks after you complete the 4 Role Quest lines.

TLDR: The Ascians had plans to restore the 13th using the 1'st over abundance of Light Aether, Ardbert and co naturally ended up derailing the plan quite thoroughly.

[Brightamethyst]

TLDR: The Ascians had plans to restore the 13th using the 1'st over abundance of Light Aether

No they didn't. That was just a lie they told Cylva to trick her into helping prime the First for rejoining.

[Jandor]

TLDR: The Ascians had plans to restore the 13th using the 1'st over abundance of Light Aether, Ardbert and co naturally ended up derailing the plan quite thoroughly.

We know that wasn't the Ascians real plan because they successfully executed their actual plan and used that Light Aether to rejoin the 1st to the Source. We had a lot of quests about it

[Slatersev]

Hm? I was under the impression that they were gonna use it for both.

Remember, the Flood was not part of the plan, the 1'st was supposed to be primed for rejoining, Ardbert wasn't supposed to beat Clyva or spare her. That threw the plan outta wack, led to Mitron and Loghrif's deaths and caused the Flood.

Quick thinking on Emet's part salvaged things, but it was never supposed to get to that point.

I just assumed the plan for the First involved restoring the Thirteenth and Rejoining the First at the same time. But the Thirteenth would be restored as a Shard, not rejoined alongside the First as the same time.

[YianKutku]

This question was actually answered in the Final Role Quest that unlocks after you complete the 4 Role Quest lines.

TLDR: The Ascians had plans to restore the 13th using the 1'st over abundance of Light Aether, Ardbert and co naturally ended up derailing the plan quite thoroughly.

The issue is that as Cylva tells it, she uses the same type of wording that Ascians generally use (possibly quoting them verbatim), which is very probably deliberately worded to be as vague as possible.

The actual words used:

A shard subsumed by Dark demands a mirror of blinding Light. Primordial forces will strive to achieve equilibrium.

This just states blandly that if X happens, then Y will also happen. It doesn't actually say that X will cause Y. Therefore, the Thirteenth falling into Darkness doesn't actually mean the First falling to Light has anything to do with saving it. A common interpretation on this forum is that the Thirteenth falling to Darkness just meant the First was affected by it, and thus made easier to fall to Light, and Cylva was doing the Ascians' plans because she thought it was the best way to save the First, while assuming that the Thirteenth is forever doomed.

In fact, the extra questline with Unukalhai in 5.4 revealed that Cylva didn't think the Thirteenth was salvageable, and that the Ascians didn't think so either (according to her). It was only the (ongoing slow) reversal of the Empty via Eden that helped convince her and Unukalhai of the possibility of doing the same to the Thirteenth.

[Beddict]

An interesting point and I would support your point by pointing at Lakshmi. When Lakshmi resurrected the daughter of the leader of the Qualyana, she didn't bring her back in her original state. She was nothing but a puppet. She was "alive" again but she wasn't "there." Even now she persists only to state the direct desires of Lakshmi. Even if the Ancients were restored, they wouldn't be the people the Ascians want back.

I bolded the part that I think is most relevant here, that being the word "restored". The Amaurotines didn't die and return to the Lifestream, they were sacrificed and absorbed into Zodiark, and we have seen that Elidibus was able to extract his soul from Zodiark. This is far different from the case with Lakshmi where the daughter had died and returned to the Lifestream. Once the soul is in the Lifestream, it's gone, only coming back out when it's reincarnated. I think it's likely that Zodiark could restore the souls of the sacrificed Amaurotines since he actually has them, although whether or not he's willing to do so is up in the air since we don't know much about his personality.