Damage Down debuffs in the current raid tier

[Poison_Rose]

I don't like how punitive they are, especially with how easily you can get them from another player making a mistake.

[QooEr]

damage downs are the only thing other than insta-death that makes players do mechanics so im glad mechanics this tier actually punish players where it hurts.

though i agree that in e10s, when other people mess up orbs its dumb that the dmg down goes to those who did it right.

[ItMe]

I like them.
They're a much better punishment than a wipe.
They're better for prog and they're a cool way to punish you considering how free and easy reezes can be

[Karshan]

Agreed. It makes sure player do mechs, because players don't want that, but also lowers difficulty : E10S is super quick to learn cause most failures don't kill you, making you able to go longer and see the mechs more often. Two issues however with that, one has been said already :

- getting a damage down when you fail : fair enough. Getting one for OTHER players messing up ? Not ok. Not sure it's going towards less toxicity in PF if your parse is ruined by someone else fucking something up not so badly that you still kill in the end. Actually I suspect if that happens you will see people actively sabotaging kills if some damage down happen. I know I'd be very displeased when I do a really good rotation that would turn into a shit parse because we were two on some orbs instead of three. Since fflogs doesn't rank on pps but dps, it's a shame.

- this introduces a discrepancy between tanks and invuln cheese like E9S anti air. GNB and PLD are fine, DRK and WAR can't cheese without damage down because of the way it is coded (looks as simple as dmg <> 0 then debuff, lol)

[Mavrias]

I like them, personally. It discourages the mentality that lead to things like the strike spark cheese.

[Karshan]

I like them, personally. It discourages the mentality that lead to things like the strike spark cheese.

What is the strike spark cheese may I ask ?

[Mavrias]

What is the strike spark cheese may I ask ?

Instead of finding the safe spot during strike spark, everyone just runs north and eats the vuln stack and hopes the tank doesn't kill them with the first half of the tank buster.

Pretty much throws all the responsibility on the healers to heavy shield you through the hit, instead of just doing the mechanic normally.

[Kyeria]

I haven't actually gotten to this specific area of savage content yet, but I will say that it sounds like a wonderful change to me...

I always felt like giving the players Vulnerability stacks for failing mechanics was a crutch used in place of creating actual meaningful/challenging mechanics/gameplay. ( IMO ) There's a huge difference between insane BS that creates a memory/dance system that punishes you for not playing exactly how they want you to - and then creating challenging mechanics that punish you accordingly while giving you an opportunity to recover/mix things up.

[SnowVix]

I don't like how punitive they are, especially with how easily you can get them from another player making a mistake.

they're a better incentive to actually do the mechanic than Vuln Ups ever were, and the first two floors are such lenient dps checks that you can clear 9s with double-digit damage down applications