Nature of the Sound

[Vyrerus]

This was the entire impetus for the summoning of Hydaelyn, because the dissenters went "no, this is not acceptable, we cannot cling onto our civilization at the cost of everything else".

No, the impetus for Hydaelyn's creation was specifically their fear of Zodiark's power going unchecked. It's pretty clear that fear was the motivator, because summoning a god that would need to be maintained in much the same way as the one it holds in check is clearly not a real solution, but it was the one they could think to muster that would work, at the time.

[Kesey]

No, the impetus for Hydaelyn's creation was specifically their fear of Zodiark's power going unchecked. It's pretty clear that fear was the motivator, because summoning a god that would need to be maintained in much the same way as the one it holds in check is clearly not a real solution, but it was the one they could think to muster that would work, at the time.

No, the impetus for Hydaelyn's creation was that summoning Zodiark doesn't actually stop the Final Days, it just delays it. So they need to summon Hydaelyn to create a permanent solution. You hear this from the recording of the Ancients that summon Hydaelyn at the end of Anamnesis Anyder.

What's not directly clear here is what is Zodiark doing that just causes The Sound and the Final Days to come back around after an extended period of time.

[Vyrerus]

No, the impetus for Hydaelyn's creation was that summoning Zodiark doesn't actually stop the Final Days, it just delays it. So they need to summon Hydaelyn to create a permanent solution. You hear this from the recording of the Ancients that summon Hydaelyn at the end of Anamnesis Anyder.

What's not directly clear here is what is Zodiark doing that just causes The Sound and the Final Days to come back around after an extended period of time.

The thing is, even though that's what they say in the recording, it's not a fact. It's just what they believe. They were afraid that Zodiark wasn't a permanent solution, because they were either aware that the cause of the Final Days hadn't actually been rooted out, i.e. Zodiark is symptomatic treatment, or that Zodiark's miracles would just lead back to retriggering the Final Days again... somehow.

Really, that recording just proves the Hydaelyn dissenters to be vainglorious rebels, with an idea that was ultimately no better than what the Convocation had in mind, except on the matter of protecting the new life. Which we aren't given much detail about. It'd be one thing to protect the new life if it were freshly sprouted sentient life, life aware of itself. It'd be another if they were asking every other Amaurotine in existence to trade the possibility of getting their loved ones back for what amounts to cattle(at the time).

There's still many factors we don't know, too. Like if the Sundering was intentional or not. I assume that it wasn't, but if it was the only way for Hydaelyn to protect the new life, then that means that the Dissenters essentially risked the existence of everyone and everything. I think it wasn't intentional, but that proves that the dissenters really didn't know what they were doing, since their checks and balances for Zodiark wound up completely altering and then having dominion over the star(and all its pieces). Not too mention, it was an inherently violent course of action.

Hydaelyn has some 'splainin to do!

[Kesey]

The thing is, even though that's what they say in the recording, it's not a fact. It's just what they believe. They were afraid that Zodiark wasn't a permanent solution, because they were either aware that the cause of the Final Days hadn't actually been rooted out, i.e. Zodiark is symptomatic treatment, or that Zodiark's miracles would just lead back to retriggering the Final Days again... somehow.

Really, that recording just proves the Hydaelyn dissenters to be vainglorious rebels, with an idea that was ultimately no better than what the Convocation had in mind, except on the matter of protecting the new life. Which we aren't given much detail about. It'd be one thing to protect the new life if it were freshly sprouted sentient life, life aware of itself. It'd be another if they were asking every other Amaurotine in existence to trade the possibility of getting their loved ones back for what amounts to cattle(at the time).

There's still many factors we don't know, too. Like if the Sundering was intentional or not. I assume that it wasn't, but if it was the only way for Hydaelyn to protect the new life, then that means that the Dissenters essentially risked the existence of everyone and everything. I think it wasn't intentional, but that proves that the dissenters really didn't know what they were doing, since their checks and balances for Zodiark wound up completely altering and then having dominion over the star(and all its pieces). Not too mention, it was an inherently violent course of action.

Hydaelyn has some 'splainin to do!

I find it very hard to believe Venat and the other Hydaelyn summoners to be vainglorious when they all sacrificed their lives to summon Hydaelyn. Furthermore, they did it save the world from the Final Days and the Sound because Zodiark only delayed the coming of the Final Days and didn't stop it. Hydaelyn was designed be a permeant solution. Lastly, Hythlodaeus corroborates their story when we meet him at the end of 5.0.

I agree there are unanswered questions and that Hydaelyn could answer those questions, but I think the reason to not trust Hydaelyn stems from the fact she is a primal and there is a high probability that Hydaelyn's Blessing is just her way of tempering the WOL.

[Vyrerus]

I find it very hard to believe Venat and the other Hydaelyn summoners to be vainglorious when they all sacrificed their lives to summon Hydaelyn. Furthermore, they did it save the world from the Final Days and the Sound because Zodiark only delayed the coming of the Final Days and didn't stop it. Hydaelyn was designed be a permeant solution. Lastly, Hythlodaeus corroborates their story when we meet him at the end of 5.0.

I agree there are unanswered questions and that Hydaelyn could answer those questions, but I think the reason to not trust Hydaelyn stems from the fact she is a primal and there is a high probability that Hydaelyn's Blessing is just her way of tempering the WOL.

Oh, but they were vainglorious. They went against the established leadership and the entire rest of their society, so strong was their belief that what they were doing would work, and like I said, it was bad either way. Until shown explicitly otherwise, we nor they actually know if Zodiark would have actually failed at forestalling The Sound or the Final Days. That was an assumption and fear on their part. They are much like the Scions in thinking that they know what's best for everyone, even belittling heads of state on the reg.

Hydaelyn hastened the destruction of their own society and people. In a way, they just created a different version of the Final Days by inciting civil war. Also it's clear that not every one of the dissenters sacrificed their lives to make Hydaelyn. The one that remarks he will miss Venat after she becomes the heart proves as much.

[Kesey]

Oh, but they were vainglorious. They went against the established leadership and the entire rest of their society, so strong was their belief that what they were doing would work, and like I said, it was bad either way. Until shown explicitly otherwise, we nor they actually know if Zodiark would have actually failed at forestalling The Sound or the Final Days. That was an assumption and fear on their part. They are much like the Scions in thinking that they know what's best for everyone, even belittling heads of state on the reg.

Hydaelyn hastened the destruction of their own society and people. In a way, they just created a different version of the Final Days by inciting civil war. Also it's clear that not every one of the dissenters sacrificed their lives to make Hydaelyn. The one that remarks he will miss Venat after she becomes the heart proves as much.

Unless what Venat and her followers said was true and were rebuffed by a tempered to Zodiark Convocation. Remember the recording mentions that the Convocation refuses to discuss that Zodiark just forestalled their doom and the Amauroteans were a society or debate and discussion. Also note that the conversation also implies it takes place post-Zodiark's summon, so they had evidence it didn't work too.

Venat and her followers were backed into a corner. They couldn't participate in the highest values of their society. They were not vainglorious. They were desperate because of the tempered followers of Zodiark. Futhermore, Venat and company's story is affirmed by Hythlodaes and the evidence of tempering was shared by Emet.

[Veloran]

Also note that the conversation also implies it takes place post-Zodiark's summon, so they had evidence it didn't work too.

We have no idea what their reasoning was.

Dude, they planned to kill everyone. All the life that currently exists means absolutely nothing to them.

I was referring to pre-Sundering and what life they intended to sacrifice. Furthermore saying that all life means nothing to them isn't really accurate because the entire point of the rejoining is to rejoin all currently existing life back into it's pre-broken forms.

I agree with this theory 100%. This also explains how Azem, who isn't present for the summoning of Hydaelyn and Zodiark, can post-sunder rejoin this group and rebuild the world. Lets not forget that Nald'thal are twins who count as one god, which make "the 12" actually 13--the 12 Ancients who followed Venat and Azem.

The theory doesn't work because Azem wasn't a follower of Hydaelyn and didn't support her summoning. And given that WoL is a fractured soul, Azem was either sundered along with the rest of the world or somehow survived only to be sundered at a later date. If anything it's most likely the Twelve are just half-recollections of the Convocation, or even simply all interpretations of various incarnations of WoL throughout the ages.