Nature of the Sound

[YianKutku]

I don't really see how benevolence and submission to fate are traits that are supposed to go hand-in-hand. To your earlier point the Ascians view sharded life as lesser beings because they quite literally are lesser broken forms of their prior existence, and that through the rejoining they're in fact saving everyone and returning them to what they once were.

Again, the point of the Rejoining is not to get everyone presently on the shards to become Unsundered again.

The point of the Rejoining is to get the worlds to be Unsundered, so they can sacrifice it again to bring back the people they already lost by being sacrificed to Zodiark. The only people they want to "save" are those who are already gone via Zodiark; everyone else, including the souls currently alive, are merely fodder to bring them back.

This was the entire impetus for the summoning of Hydaelyn, because the dissenters went "no, this is not acceptable, we cannot cling onto our civilization at the cost of everything else".

Emet seemed to believe that Mitron and Loghrif were dead. Even if they were aware that Mitron had in fact become Eden, it's debatable as to whether it would have either been possible, or desirable in terms of their plans, to try restoring him.

Loghrif was dead, but according to Mitron (and corroborated by every interaction with the Ascians in FFXIV prior), this is a minor setback, since the particular Convocation soul will eventually be reincarnated.

But Emet-Selch (named specifically by Mitron, but again I suspect Elidibus would also be eligible) didn't even bother, because doing so would mess with the one-track plan he had for Rejoining the First through Light.

Ryne: Emet-Selch -- couldn't he have saved you?

Mitron: Perhaps he could have, if such had been his wish. Far easier, however, to simply find another piece of my fractured soul to replace me. From his perspective, there was no need to intervene and potentially disturb with the balance of aether. And so here I remained.

Gaia: So after you failed, he left you here to rot. Some friend he turned out to be.

Mitron: Thus abandoned, I called out for what seemed like an eternity to the only soul who could save me: you, Gaia.

[Vyrerus]

This was the entire impetus for the summoning of Hydaelyn, because the dissenters went "no, this is not acceptable, we cannot cling onto our civilization at the cost of everything else".

No, the impetus for Hydaelyn's creation was specifically their fear of Zodiark's power going unchecked. It's pretty clear that fear was the motivator, because summoning a god that would need to be maintained in much the same way as the one it holds in check is clearly not a real solution, but it was the one they could think to muster that would work, at the time.

[Veloran]

The only people they want to "save" are those who are already gone via Zodiark; everyone else, including the souls currently alive, are merely fodder to bring them back.

1/4th of the Amaurotines were never sacrificed to Zodiark to begin with, and like most of the Convocation members must exist as sundered beings in the current sharded world. We can say then that the Ascians are invested in rejoining everything's souls at least for this 1/4th of their people as well as to return the sacrificed.

This was the entire impetus for the summoning of Hydaelyn, because the dissenters went "no, this is not acceptable, we cannot cling onto our civilization at the cost of everything else".

The Anyder actually say nothing about any of this when discussing their motivations for summoning Hydaelyn amongst themselves. They say they intend to summon Hydaelyn because the summoning of Zodiark didn't bring a permanent solution to ending the threat of the Sound. We don't know what that entails, why they believed this or what if anything they even knew of the Sound, but they don't really say anything about the Convocation's intent to sacrifice proliferated life being relevant to their plans.

But Emet-Selch (named specifically by Mitron, but again I suspect Elidibus would also be eligible) didn't even bother, because doing so would mess with the one-track plan he had for Rejoining the First through Light.

This is what he says, we have no reason to believe he's correct. It's true that the Unsundered considered the sundered Ascians as being expendable, because from their perspective they can simply be reraised once again at a later date, but as to his belief that Emet knew his situation, Emet himself says that he believes both of them were slain and that he is the only Ascian on the First.

[Rymi64]

And then there were the flashbacks by Elidibus of his early days on the Convocation, where all the other Convocation members went "you are worthy of your position, so be proud of yourself". Compare to the present day, when every other Ascian felt that Elidibus was an insufferable bore at best, or actively cheered his demise in the case of Fandaniel.

To be fair that could be because of elidibus hyperfixating on fulfilling the role he thought he had as the emissary. And maybe even the promise he made to that certain someone.

[Kesey]

To be fair that could be because of elidibus hyperfixating on fulfilling the role he thought he had as the emissary. And maybe even the promise he made to that certain someone.

I think it's even simpler than that with Elidbus. He was a primal and everything we know of primals shows they are of one mind and one drive. He was going to push his goal all the time, unabated.

[Rosenstrauch]

The writing surrounding Eden is all kinds of weird, frankly. None of the characters who should know about it acknowledge its existence until the raid questline starts. By that point every character who knows is either dead or presumed dead, leaving Urianger to be the sole source of exposition on its history—when he should be just as in the dark as everyone else—for most of the raid questline's runtime.

I can't say I'd hold it against Emet-Selch for not thinking to check that out because of that. 'cause otherwise, I'd also have to hold it against Ardbert for wasting time talking about his feelings the whole time instead of warning us about the city-sized sin eater that caused the Flood of Light. Or Minfilia for spouting off cryptic spoilers as foreshadowing instead of offering advice that'd actually be useful re: the aforementioned world-ending abomination sleeping in her backyard that she arm wrestled into unconsciousness.

[EirolOcarrol]

I hold to hope that whatever we don't know about Hydaelyn, Hydaelyn is still good, and heroic. She's been one of my favourite characters since the very beginning, I felt a lot of connection with her as a maternal figure since the very beginning.

I was honestly absolutely crushed by the revelation that she was not only the first, before Zodiark, but that she and Zodiark were both Primals, the thing we've been fighting the whole time. Or at least most of the time. My friends reassured me about her that this didn't change anything, as a big fan of Hydaelyn. And that her being a Primal simply means we're supposed to now have a different outlook on Primals, and not a negative outlook on Hydaelyn, our caretaker.

It seems that my friend group's reassurances aren't necessarily shared by the wider community, though. And the revelations of Shadowbringers has done exactly what I feared. Everyone is turning on and suspecting Hydaelyn of being evil. I'm going to be feel so relieved if Hydaelyn is vindicated in 6.0 or "Forspoken", Shadowbringers has been painful as a fan of Crystal mommy. A lot of people think she's evil now.

It would be nice to have more explanations, soon. I'm sure that's what the next expansion is for. And I really hope we have the chance to talk with her again. We haven't really seen her at all since Word of the Mother.
I miss crystal mommy. She was such a comforting presence and support in 1.0 and 2.0. I always felt a Maternal Goddess figure like her really appealing. And Answers still makes me tear up years later.

[LineageRazor]

It seems that my friend group's reassurances aren't necessarily shared by the wider community, though. And the revelations of Shadowbringers has done exactly what I feared. Everyone is turning on and suspecting Hydaelyn of being evil. I'm going to be feel so relieved if Hydaelyn is vindicated in 6.0 or "Forspoken", Shadowbringers has been painful as a fan of Crystal mommy. A lot of people think she's evil now.

If it's any consolation, Hydaelyn has had folks suspecting her of villainy LONG before this reveal - and even folks who felt strongly that even if her acts ARE entirely benevolent, she's got to go. The very fact that she's a more powerful being is reason enough to tear her down. In the eyes of some, humankind can never be safe, never be secure, as long as such beings exist, whatever their acts, whatever their intentions. Xenophobia, to put it plainly.

The revelation that she's a Primal was a hard blow, to be sure, though it seems quite likely that she's more along the lines of Shiva - a Primal with a real person inside, guiding her actions. This puts her on a different level than other Primals - not a better level, or worse, but it leaves hope that she may genuinely be the benevolent being she was presented as, and not merely a slave to the "programming" she was originally created with.

Personally, I believe she is being presented as someone who is doing the best that she can with the cards she was dealt, who honestly wishes the best for all but who does not have the power to save everyone. She was forced to make some very difficult decisions, with horrific consequences no matter what she chose to do. If she was knowingly responsible for the Sundering, if she knew the consequences before she chose to do it, it was only because not causing the Sundering would have had even worse consequences (most likely, death of the star and all life on it vs. death of the Ancients as a people in exchange for life to live on in some form at all).

I don't think that the writers have any intention on giving up on the idea of presenting Hydaelyn as a good and heroic figure - but she is not, and never has been all-powerful. There's only so much she can do. The folks who are hoping for a Shin Megami Tenshi-esque ending where both the "good" and "bad" gods are terrible people and the only solution is to be rid of them all - I think they're going to be left out in the cold.

[Veloran]

The revelation that she's a Primal was a hard blow, to be sure, though it seems quite likely that she's more along the lines of Shiva - a Primal with a real person inside, guiding her actions. This puts her on a different level than other Primals - not a better level, or worse, but it leaves hope that she may genuinely be the benevolent being she was presented as, and not merely a slave to the "programming" she was originally created with.

Do we even have reason to think Venat still resides in Hydaelyn? Moreover why should we think she isn't tempered, when Elidibus was?