Nature of the Sound

[Veloran]

I don't think it was meant as "they caused the sound". It seems more likely that such an advanced people wouldn't think a sound worth anything of significance, and in their hubris ignored it until it got out of hand. These were people who mostly let nature take it's natural course, as evident by one of the side stories; they probably didn't think a "minor" sound worth much thought.

I think they clearly gave it a lot of thought, really. They knew what it was doing and that it seemed to be inevitably destroying the world, and they prepared the entire sacrifice and Zodiark plan to stop it because they couldn't seem to find any other answers.

[LineageRazor]

I'm still in the camp that believes that the problem is one that originates with the Ancients and their Creation magic affecting the planet in a negative way that none of them could have foreseen. The main reason I believe this has to do with the side-story about the phoenix and its accidental ensouling. Emet-Selch is the foremost authority on the Lifestream and the transition of souls to and from it, and even he was befuddled by the phenomenon. The Phoenix, for its part, was clearly insane and in pain. I feel that this was a hint that something was very wrong with the Lifestream as a whole, and they simply weren't able to puzzle out the problem in time. (Or, for that matter, even try; they simply decided to mercy-kill the thing and put the whole matter behind them.)

I'm ready to believe that the story had little or nothing to do with the eventual Sound-driven cataclysm. It may simply have been a glimpse into the mindset of Emet and the other Ancients, highlighting their unmalicious callousness when it came to lesser beings (a callousness which would later be inflated to the point where they were willing to do what they did to usher in the Rejoinings). For now, though, I believe that the Phoenix episode was a hint at the origins of the Sound and the End of Days, and how even the greatest among the minds of the Ancients failed to recognize the threat before it was too late.

Creation magic was an ability possessed by the Ancients that was as ingrained to them as breathing, and I think that normal use of it should not have posed any kind of threat to the planet. What we saw of Amaraut, though, indicated that they had made both art and science out of the use of Creation magic, pushing the boundaries of what it could do. That, I think, was what began to corrupt the Lifestream and lead to the disaster that followed. Giant space flea is another possibility, to be sure, but it's my second choice.

I think they clearly gave it a lot of thought, really. They knew what it was doing and that it seemed to be inevitably destroying the world, and they prepared the entire sacrifice and Zodiark plan to stop it because they couldn't seem to find any other answers.

Eventually, yeah, they turned to these desperate plans. Earlier on, though, it appears as though they were less concerned about it, hence the "debate" among the Ancient NPCs about whether Amaurot should go to the aid of the far-off suffering cities or not. Once the problem was on their doorstep, you're right, they started thinking long and deep aobut what to do. (At least, as long and deep as they could with monsters literally springing out of their heads left and right and fire falling from the sky.)

[Kesey]

Yes, I believe the Sound is very important. It is entirely possible that Azem was dealing with it/finding a way to deal with it and that's why they were not involved in Zodiark/Hydaelyn situation. What if Azem already found a solution for the Sound only to be sundered before they could fix it?

This could very well be the case. But I wonder if the sound won't be an issue until after Hydaelyn/Zodiark are finished.

[Veloran]

I'm ready to believe that the story had little or nothing to do with the eventual Sound-driven cataclysm. It may simply have been a glimpse into the mindset of Emet and the other Ancients, highlighting their unmalicious callousness when it came to lesser beings (a callousness which would later be inflated to the point where they were willing to do what they did to usher in the Rejoinings). For now, though, I believe that the Phoenix episode was a hint at the origins of the Sound and the End of Days, and how even the greatest among the minds of the Ancients failed to recognize the threat before it was too late.

It's neither. The episode is summed up with this.

"Consumed by the fear of death, it thrashes blindly about. It will know only pain and suffering and inflict the same upon others. A pitiful existence."

"Such moving empathy. It's as if you wore the feathers yourself."

People keep thinking there's something untowards with the phoenix that hints to the start of the Final Days and the Ancients causing it, but the truth is the point of it was to draw a direct parallel between the bird and Emet. I don't know how it could be made more clear, considering Hythlodaeus' line.

Eventually, yeah, they turned to these desperate plans. Earlier on, though, it appears as though they were less concerned about it, hence the "debate" among the Ancient NPCs about whether Amaurot should go to the aid of the far-off suffering cities or not. Once the problem was on their doorstep, you're right, they started thinking long and deep aobut what to do. (At least, as long and deep as they could with monsters literally springing out of their heads left and right and fire falling from the sky.)

I don't really think the debate between a couple of average citizens is all that indicative of what the authorities in Amaurot like the Convocation were thinking about it at that time. Given dealing with affairs in the wider world was the primary purview of the seat of Azem, the rest of the Convocation was probably not prepared to just jump in wildly. Moreover you suggest that they should have acted sooner, but part of that debate you mention addresses that Amaurot really isn't supposed to be some saviors of the world. It's precisely that thinking, which was ultimately brought about by everyone else being wiped out, which led to 12,000 years of Calamities with the Ascians trying to reunify everyone's souls and save those who had sacrificed themselves. In fact you could say this debate was the core of the conflict between the Convocation and the Anyder, as the former took up the mantel of stewards of the star while the latter effectively stood for non-intervention beyond the point of pure survival.

[Kesey]

I'm ready to believe that the story had little or nothing to do with the eventual Sound-driven cataclysm. It may simply have been a glimpse into the mindset of Emet and the other Ancients, highlighting their unmalicious callousness when it came to lesser beings (a callousness which would later be inflated to the point where they were willing to do what they did to usher in the Rejoinings). For now, though, I believe that the Phoenix episode was a hint at the origins of the Sound and the End of Days, and how even the greatest among the minds of the Ancients failed to recognize the threat before it was too late.

You are correct that the story was to point out the callousness thought of lesser beings, as the parallel is continued by drawing a comparison between pre- and post- sundered Emet showing his inner disgust for his progeny in Varis who was the perfect grandson in all regards other than his soul is fractured.

The phoenix on the other hand is to call back Louisoix, so to subtlety link the Ancients and Sharlayans again. It's clear that when Louisoix summoned the 12 and was transformed into Phoenix, he was using the same creation magic the Ascians are giving beast tribes to summon primals, and the Ancients used flagrantly. So the question posed is why did Louisoix know about this magic? Especially, if he didn't get it from an Ascian.

[Kesey]

People keep thinking there's something untowards with the phoenix that hints to the start of the Final Days and the Ancients causing it, but the truth is the point of it was to draw a direct parallel between the bird and Emet. I don't know how it could be made more clear, considering Hythlodaeus' line.

This story doesn't draw a point between Emet and the bird. The parallel is drawn between pre- and post- sundered Emet. Emet's regard for the Phoenix is echoed in his disgust for Varis.

What they say about the Phoenix (your quote) is the exact opposite of what Phoenix is. Phoenix is a symbol of rebirth and hope. Ascians fit the description they ascribe to the Phoenix--consumed by fear of death, inflicting pain and suffering upon others, and are pitiful in existence because Ascians are so powerful they could do so much good for the world but just continue to punish them with calamities/rejoinings. The reading here is ironic because reader already knows Emet will become an Ascian and they are just terrible beings, even if we can sympathize with the hidden motivations for their actions.

[Veloran]

This story doesn't draw a point between Emet and the bird.

It clearly does. Hythlodaeus literally says "it's as if you wore the feathers yourself," that is as explicit as it's possible to describe a parallel. The phoenix in the story houses a soul filled with regrets that rages against it's death in a self-destructive struggle. This is a direct parallel to Emet and the Ascians after the Sundering, as they're destructively struggling for the rebirth of a dead world and it's people. To The Edge even calls back to this specifically with many of it's lyrics. And while we're meant to view this as tragic and regrettable, and I even think WoL is supposed to parallel Emet in this story as it's his task to end the phoenix' suffering, the intention was to paint them as pitiful yes, but not terrible. Of note is the parallel Emet himself draws, in that he describes mortals in terms akin to the phoenix, as thrashing about in their broken lives and repeating their mistakes over and over, and so we see that from his perspective his task with them is the same as with the phoenix, and yet from a greater context we also see that Emet is no different.

There are a ton of connections being drawn in the story, and I think it's too reductive just to say "he had empathy for the bird but disgust for Varis, so the point of the story is to show how he changed into a bad guy."

[Kesey]

It clearly does. Hythlodaeus literally says "it's as if you wore the feathers yourself," that is as explicit as it's possible to describe a parallel. The phoenix in the story houses a soul filled with regrets that rages against it's death in a self-destructive struggle. This is a direct parallel to Emet and the Ascians after the Sundering, as they're destructively struggling for the rebirth of a dead world and it's people. To The Edge even calls back to this specifically with many of it's lyrics. And while we're meant to view this as tragic and regrettable, and I even think WoL is supposed to parallel Emet in this story as it's his task to end the phoenix' suffering, the intention was to paint them as pitiful yes, but not terrible. Of note is the parallel Emet himself draws, in that he describes mortals in terms akin to the phoenix, as thrashing about in their broken lives and repeating their mistakes over and over, and so we see that from his perspective his task with them is the same as with the phoenix, and yet from a greater context we also see that Emet is no different.

There are a ton of connections being drawn in the story, and I think it's too reductive just to say "he had empathy for the bird but disgust for Varis, so the point of the story is to show how he changed into a bad guy."

Again, the reader is assumed to have played the game, so they know that the description ascribed to Phoenix does not fit the the Phoenix (rebirth and hope) and instead they ascribe a description that fits Ascians instead (which the reader should also have knowledge of because reading this assumes you have played the game).

And you are the one being reductive because you fail to take the conclusion one step further and not use your knowledge of Phoenix from the game.

[Rosenstrauch]

Been thinking about this for a while now while brainstorming a writing idea, and figured I'd look back on previous Final Fantasy and FF-adjacent games for possible influences for what the Sound may be.

Final Fantasy 4 and Final Fantasy 4: The After Years

FF4:TAY brings us the Maenads, half-Lunarian clones of Rydia sent from the True Moon to terrorize the kingdoms of the Blue Planet, shackle the Eidolons, and retrieve the planet's crystals for study. Their method of travel between the True Moon and the Blue Planet and Red Moon were meteors that inflicted toxifying wounds upon impact. Near the end of the game, the True Moon begins raining down hundreds of these meteors onto the Blue Planet before steadily approaching for impact itself.

Final Fantasy 4 also has Zemus, who was able to invade the mind of a young Theodore Harvey—better known as Golbez—and brainwash/control him. This despite the fact that Zemus was sealed within the Lunar Core. There's also the Lunar Eidolons, most notably Lunar Bahamut.

Final Fantasy 7

FF7 brings us Jenova, who came to Gaia upon a meteor that inflicted a gaping wound to the planet in the form of the Northern Crater. She then infiltrated Centra society, posing as the friends and loved ones of her victims to get close to them before transforming them into monsters. And while she was eventually defeated, her presence led to the near extinction of the Cetra and the downfall of their society.

Chrono Trigger

Lavos who, much like Jenova, arrived in the form of a meteor. Like Jenova, Lavos's impact on the world was felt immediately, as the world fell into an ice age that seemingly wiped out most surface life following his arrival. Unlike Lavos, he largely went under the radar after that, only surfacing as 65,000,000 years because of the kingdom of Zeal's meddling. Of note is Queen Zeal, whose drastic personality shift from a kind and caring mother to a zealous fanatic willing to sacrifice the entire world for Lavos is very reminiscent of the tempering process.

The final battle also has certain characters speculate that Lavos's life cycle isn't just the result of an out of control apex predator, but a calculated move from an intelligent life form to harvest a planet's lifetime worth of genetic material. There was also a sequel, but getting into that would require another post entirely due to how damn weird it is.

Final Fantasy 8

The Lunatic Pandora is a massive, towering structure housing and harnessing the power of the Lunar Crystal. The Lunar Crystal will, under the right conditions, cause monsters living on the moon to gather up into a giant ball and plummet to the surface of the world. This meteor (I feel like I'm seeing a pattern here) inflicts widespread devastation on a global scale while also wiping out all life near the impact crater, natch, and is also the entire reason monsters exist on the planet's surface. This phenomenon is known as the Lunar Cry.

Moon's haunted, basically.

Final Fantasy Tactics

It doesn't really belong here on its own, but I'm bringing it up due to the way FF14 adapted its final boss: Ultima, the High Seraph/the Angel of Blood. Specifically, it's an alien life form that arrived on the world in an unknown time period. All that is known about it is that the ruin and devastation it wrought was so severe that those who survived its wrath began to fear and worship it, resulting in it gaining a will of its own through becoming a primal. As the history of the world prior to the Sundering was lost to time, however, it's unlikely that Ultima in particular was the source of the Sound unless the knowledge of its existence was passed down by the Ascians themselves to her would-be summoner, Saint Ajora.

Also, it'd be kind of underwhelming for the source of the Sound to be something we've already defeated.

I think the most likely candidates for a "this is a reference to a previous Final Fantasy" would be FF7's Jenova or FF8's Lunatic Pandora, depending on whether or not Fandaniel's plan has any relation to it. Perhaps it's even both. The whole "the Sound weaponizes the Ancients' magic against them" bit is comparable to Jenova's infiltration/transformation strategy for wiping out the Cetra. And the towers and Lunar Bahamut may be the result of the writers doubling up on references in the form of moon shenanigans. Lavos seems unlikely due to his modus operandi. The Zemus analogue here is Zodiark, which would make him being the source impossible without some form of time travel (please no). The Maenads and the Creator are likewise unlikely candidates for the same reason as Lavos.

So... I'm thinking Jenova, or a Jenova-like entity, with Fancy Dan's plan bearing shades of the Lunatic Pandora and the Lunar Cry.

[Veloran]

Again, the reader is assumed to have played the game, so they know that the description ascribed to Phoenix does not fit the the Phoenix (rebirth and hope) and instead they ascribe a description that fits Ascians instead (which the reader should also have knowledge of because reading this assumes you have played the game).

And you are the one being reductive because you fail to take the conclusion one step further and not use your knowledge of Phoenix from the game.

It should really go without saying that the behavior of the bird in relation to the modern idea of the phoenix is not even close to the only dynamic at play and the story and I'd argue it's certainly not among the most important comparisons we're meant to make. In fact if you want to connect it to the player's knowledge from the game, our experiences with phoenix-entities come from Louisoix and Suzaku - The former a man who was once considered a hero, but drew upon the power of a primal and became tempered, losing faith in mankind, and the latter trapped in eternal grief for the loved one she'd lost, wishing for the power to bring him back and cursing you for not living up to him.

A false hope. 'Tis folly to place one's faith in so flawed a race. "Stand together"? Hmph. They would first need to agree on which direction to face. If history teaches us anything, it is that man cannot find common ground between his own two feet.

And you! You dare think yourself his equal? His better!? Then I will put you to the proof. And when you fall, it will be a fate most deserved.

The parallels between these characters in these situations and Emet should be obvious. If you want to focus on the phoenix as seen through the player's experiences in-game, that just further deepens these themes tying back to Emet even more. In every circumstance with a "phoenix" thus far, "rebirth and hope" is in fact something someone else must bring to the phoenix, first Emet to the bird, then WoL to Louisoix, Suzaku, and Emet himself. I hadn't considered these connections previously, but now they seem as intentional as can be considering the storyline.