PLD IS NOT BROKEN

[Eagleheart]

Every time someone says "the DDs need to learn to hold back a bit" they prove the case that Paladin is inferior.

No one here loves Paladin more than me. (>.> ) Equally, maybe. More? No way. And it's inferior.

If you have to say "Well, if the party has a Paladin, as opposed to a Warrior, they need to learn to pace themselves", you just made the case for Paladin being inferior.

DDs do not need to pace themselves with a Warrior the way they do with a Paladin.

To OP: Paladin can Stoneskin, a well-geared WHM can do it better. Other jobs present - BRD and WHM, or anyone on a Class instead - can give the tank Stoneskin. It is not of great import for Paladin to have access to it when others will cast it on the Paladin routinely.

And I second Phobos' groaning about the idea of balancing jobs through content. That's not repairing what's not working with the job, that's tailoring new content to bad mechanics. That is what FFXI did for the entirety of its existence.

Don't do that.

Lastly, I do not want to come across as unkind, but the truth is that there is no skill involved in getting Stoneskin up before Hellfire, as a Paladin. You have sixty seconds before Hellfire, after Nails pop - you start a timer, you won't be caught off guard.

If your best point about the defensive potential of Paladin is being able to survive a scripted sequence attack with a minute of warning, then this thread is simply pointless.

Also, Stoneskin isn't native to Paladin. (>.> ) It's not a "Paladin defensive ability." A Gladiator can do the same bloody thing.

[Daniel_Fury]

I'd rather kill Ifrit in 6 or 7 min instead of 10 or 11, I'll stick with war. War hold hate way better anyway, no clue what you're talking about.

I kill Ifrit in 6 minutes with as a PLD tank. Why? My hate isn't an issue and it never has been.
I also easily do it with one WHM.
The only way people can outwin a hate competition is by collusioning my spirits within. Holy Succor is an insane hate tool and most people can't use it properly because they play too safe.

Why use melee strategies? More than "making PLD useful" it's less repetitive and more fun.
Cookie cutter setups are boring, and if I can win either or, I roll tanking PLD looking after my melee, showing them that PLD isn't broken.

[Judge_Xero]

WAR ='s Epic, PLD ='s less Impressive

Was doing some SB in Natalan the other day. My one LS member was joining in, he's a WAR.
We were like need us to meet you at the Gates? He's like, no worries.

So he just casually solos his way to the Wolf Pen in Natalan.

PLD would last for a while, but I just don't see them taking down the Gatekeepers quick enough to stay alive and lose claim on following mobs. Guess they could use Hollowed Ground to help a bit.

Maybe they should give PLD Rampage and an awesome AOE attack.

Hollowed Ground would be sweet if it had a lower cooldown (or lasted longer), and it also gave a buff to
party members in range (kind of like Cover) It would make PLD the ultimate party protector.

Why sholdn't PLD have an AOE Cover that negates all Physical Damage and restores MP to itself for each attack absorbed?

I agree that PLD isn't broken. It's just not greatness.
Can't wait to see what changes happen to PLD. It deserves to be epic too.

[Dzian]

I always tank Ifrit on PLD and we kill it in under 10 everytime easy

If i tank on warrior ifrit's dead in 6-7. unless its one of those "pogo the ifrit" runs that happen once in a while. (jump jump jump jump some more)

We do Moogle fight with two tanks, I'm on PLD (kitting)
And off tank is on WAR to get Whiskerwall in Phase two..

If I moogle we take 1 warrior tank and he kites EVERYTHING in phase 2 (except whichever target the dds are aiming at)

there are times i'll take a second tank but that greatly depends on group experience.

[SwordCoheir]

No. Just, no. Don't balance jobs through content... that's a horrible way of doing things.

"Oh PLD sucks so lets make a fight where it's good" - yeah that fixed everything. Go, team!

Agreed, changing content to just make a job viable only makes the problem that much worse. If they change content they should do it where all jobs have a equally justifiable reason to be brought, not so one job doesn't get picked last for baseball every time.

[Daniel_Fury]

If I moogle we take 1 warrior tank and he kites EVERYTHING in phase 2 (except whichever target the dds are aiming at)

I do this with Paladin and find it easier than using WAR.

[ChickNorris]

Yes...because we needed another thread on this topic. :::thinks of new things to add:::

Every DD holds back no matter what job the tank is...period. Collusion and Cover are there for a reason.

Every time we have had changes to game, some job is deemed useless or less than efficient and one is heralded. These "issues" people are having are not with the game, but the social stature and focus of the people playing around them.

[SwordCoheir]

Every time we have had changes to game, some job is deemed useless or less than efficient and one is heralded. These "issues" people are having are not with the game, but the social stature and focus of the people playing around them.

To be fair that is true to an extent CN, however most have stated valid reasons in full detail why PLD's design is currently flawed. It's not that the job doesn't function, but when SE rebuilt jobs and had developed PLD some of the changes don't stack up. Some of the examples are

-Parry Mitigation destroys Block Mitigation
-No real difference defensively between the two jobs
-Being forced to use a shield to utilize half our abilities, and losing our ability to parry in the process.

that's really just the tip of the iceberg. I really wish it was just some social ladder bs that keeps PLD from shining, but in this case it really is justified.

[Atoli]

I disagree and you're dumb

May I quote this as the most childish answer I've ever read on these forums?
And I've read a lot of bad stuff here..


Also, about holding back as a DD:
I always have to hold back, it doesn't matter if the tank is a PLD or a WAR..o,O'
I think PLD might be a bit inferior to WAR right now, but still far from broken.
Yep, I know, I'm not allowed to talk about a class I don't play myself but I've spent a lot of time with both kinds of tanks as a DD, as a healer, and as a healer I actually prefer PLD tanks by far.

[GulganGanzorig]

The reason Paladin is broken is it doesn't do enough damage, end of story. We have to finish Cutter's and Aurum within 25 minutes. If Paladin were completely invincible and never lost hate, we still wouldn't use one, because Warrior's are still easy to heal and pump out so much more damage.