[FEEDBACK] Redemption for Striked Accounts

[Khalithar]

Context for the strikes is key and there should definitely be different types of issues.

There's a similar system at my job where if you get in trouble for one thing and then in get in trouble for something completely unrelated, the unrelated mistake doesn't count against you for the sake of disciplinary action.

I.E. first mistake gets you a verbal, second mistake of the same kind is a write up. In the above example, you get a verbal warning for both.

Then after a certain period of time has elapsed with no mistakes, making the same mistake again starts you back at a verbal. It's a very fair system that I wish more companies in general would adopt.

I don't like the idea of permanent strikes against anyone's account, this is a video game. Saying a bad word shouldn't give you the virtual equivalent of a criminal record.

[HyperiusUltima]

In general I think they're a bit too strict on their statutes when it comes to banning and the like both on the forums and in-game, because there's issue to be had with how things are handled. You apparently can't use the S word around here because it's deemed as 'offensive language' when in reality the word 'shite' is literally used in their game and means the EXACT same thing. Like, this is a video game that has a T rating with all the tags on it! Inappropriate language is one of them!

As far as things go, companies will never tell you what you're in trouble for - even as employee. They'll just say "You have a strike on your record. Don't do it again" and we won't even know the half of it. Being transparent with your community about what happened(because honestly, I would prefer the innocent before proven guilty clause in any case) is a bit important when it comes to player retention, and can actually help people see your player support as a good thing - not something that people have grievances about when they get put in GM Jail for an arbitrary reason only to be spouted the ToS at their faces. I understand it's protocol, but it'd be a lot better if people could understand what happened. If they're afraid we're going to go witch hunting on that after they say it, then that's already grounds for the person that got reported and those involved to have that strike since it's seen as bad in a majority of communities as is.

[Kes13a]

Ah yes, just as I have repeated my same old sarcastic remark, it seems it has gotten what looks the the same old reply.

Exactly! If someone doesn't want to be exposed to that kind of language (Lord help us), you know what they can do? Turn on the profanity filter! Wow! Then they can skip the whole "offended" routine, because they cannot see the bad words! BUT WAIT! That won't do! What if they want to be offended?! They would have to know exactly what was said, so they know EXACTLY how to be offended.. so why have the filter on?! Gotta write the GMs a nice little report, with a sob story about.. something or other, to get that person(s) banned!

It's not just that bad words should be discouraged, no, no. It's about RETRIBUTION! A tiny little slip equals a STRIKE on a person's account, just a couple* more and they are OUT! This community is set at a higher standard than others, we cannot have that kind of toxicity here! Only the most severe penalties will discourage this kind of behavior!

might I remind you of what you digitally signed which removes your right to curse as freely as you wish.

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

the presence of a profanity filter does not absolve you of that agreement in any way. at all. period.
not saying a gm lurks around every corner, but you can hardly be aware of where they are at all times. maybe you werent even reported by someone with a filter on. but regardless... it doesnt matter.

while your tired sarcastic remark generated the same reply (perhaps you need to come up with new material) I am sure you will again recognize the response. and your next reply will most likely involve something about "free speech" which I will point out in advance... in a game, YOU DONT HAVE THAT RIGHT. games are "private property" so to speak and the owner of said property sets the rules.

you have the right to leave if you dont like the rules. its that simple, but by playing, (whether or not you actually read the rules) you have agreed to follow the arbitrary rules they set forth, and one of those rules involves language.

besides, unlikely you get a strike for a "tiny little slip". I would say it had to have been a rather large "slip" and if it involved a couple more... sounds like its a bigger problem than a little one off occurrence.

Edit: I would also like to point out that this isnt verbal. you can slip up SPEAKING... but if you have to type out the words and hit enter, its not much of a "slip" its a choice. you choose to put what you have typed out into the world every time you hit enter. so it is a lot harder to believe the "tiny little slip" scenario. specially if it continually happens.

[SturmChurro]

might I remind you of what you digitally signed which removes your right to curse as freely as you wish.

3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly.

the presence of a profanity filter does not absolve you of that agreement in any way. at all. period.
not saying a gm lurks around every corner, but you can hardly be aware of where they are at all times. maybe you werent even reported by someone with a filter on. but regardless... it doesnt matter.

while your tired sarcastic remark generated the same reply (perhaps you need to come up with new material) I am sure you will again recognize the response. and your next reply will most likely involve something about "free speech" which I will point out in advance... in a game, YOU DONT HAVE THAT RIGHT. games are "private property" so to speak and the owner of said property sets the rules.

you have the right to leave if you dont like the rules. its that simple, but by playing, (whether or not you actually read the rules) you have agreed to follow the arbitrary rules they set forth, and one of those rules involves language.

besides, unlikely you get a strike for a "tiny little slip". I would say it had to have been a rather large "slip" and if it involved a couple more... sounds like its a bigger problem than a little one off occurrence.

Edit: I would also like to point out that this isnt verbal. you can slip up SPEAKING... but if you have to type out the words and hit enter, its not much of a "slip" its a choice. you choose to put what you have typed out into the world every time you hit enter. so it is a lot harder to believe the "tiny little slip" scenario. specially if it continually happens.

I don't curse at all in-game or here on the forums. Don't have to remind me anything. They actually police the game as if it was meant for 5 year olds, not 13 and up, for that matter anyway. I've actually read their ToS, multiple times. They can ban you for pretty much* anything and everything. Even here on the forums. That's the way it's written. And yes, they do ban for pretty much anything and everything, all it takes is a report.

A GM isn't lurking around every corner, it's the playerbase ("community") that is. Never know when someone will hit that report button. I know for a fact people love hitting it every single chance they get, seen some brag about it even.

Come up with new material? I look to other's for inspiration! Oh, give me a break.. "Free speech" , I have actively argued against that. I've definitely done it here on these forums in the past, I am a person with many different views.

Edit: I would also like to point out that this isnt verbal. you can slip up SPEAKING... but if you have to type out the words and hit enter, its not much of a "slip" its a choice. you choose to put what you have typed out into the world every time you hit enter. so it is a lot harder to believe the "tiny little slip" scenario. specially if it continually happens.

Some people type fast.

[MsMisato]

I personally feel botting should be an instant permanent ban. I can understand the leniency can help some players learn from their mistake and become better people, I don't mean to sound harsh, but it also serves as a one-time free pass to bot. Basically you can bot all you like until you're caught, then you simply lose your free-pass and return to playing normally. Since there's a very high chance you'll never be caught and it's risk-free the first time even if you are, there's a huge incentive to bot. Of course, in the case Enix made it a permanent ban, they should be clear that bots and hacks are zero tolerance.

I fully agree harassment strikes should not be anonymous. It's also fine you get second chances, people do say things they regret after a long day or when they're tired and snap. It's not a good thing to do but it happens. You should be told what action or words resulted in your strike so you can pay better attention to it in the future. It's like being arrested and fined but they never tell you what for.

Harrassment strikes are anonymous to prevent indirect harrasment. This has happened before and this is why SE stance is firm on it. This is why SE only states what rule you broke. if a stream was used, they will ask you to delete all videos as well on the streaming site. Personally I think its a bit much but I see why its anonymous. people of have done crappier things when they find out who got them in trouble.

I do believe they the rules need to go both ways though. If a person makes a report of being harrassed and it turns out to be falsed, they need to be slapped with a strike just as well.

[HyperiusUltima]

I don't curse at all in-game or here on the forums. Don't have to remind me anything. They actually police the game as if it was meant for 5 year olds, not 13 and up, for that matter anyway. I've actually read their ToS, multiple times. They can ban you for pretty much* anything and everything. Even here on the forums. That's the way it's written. And yes, they do ban for pretty much anything and everything, all it takes is a report.

A GM isn't lurking around every corner, it's the playerbase ("community") that is. Never know when someone will hit that report button. I know for a fact people love hitting it every single chance they get, seen some brag about it even.

Come up with new material? I look to other's for inspiration! Oh, give me a break.. "Free speech" , I have actively argued against that. I've definitely done it here on these forums in the past, I am a person with many different views.

I mean, let's check the ESRB here...HMMMMMMMMMMM

Rated T for Teen.
- Alcohol Reference
- Animated Blood
- Language
- Suggestive Themes
- Violence

Yeah, uh...it says it on the tin boss. Sounds a bit sketchy if you ask me in terms of using LANGUAGE(and most T for Teen don't include the B word, yet they use the word whore in one of the lines Asahi says towards the end of Under the Moonlight. But in general, I think it's more or less using said language in a harassing manner that ticks most people. And there's the occasional 'shite' from some of the people in Eorzea here and there.

[Jijifli]

I'm of the mindset that if you have to ask, you already have your answer in this situation.

If you're having a moral dilemma over whether it's okay to say or do something, the answer is usually, "no."

Considering I had to ask "Is verbally slandering someone publicly for entering Limsa for over a month with extremely vulgar language okay?" And the answer, according to our trigger happy GM's was actually yes, it is, then I'm not too sure the question helps.

[ForteNightshade]

this is a bunch of bull. i cuss in game, but don't direct it at anyone, and the only GM interactions i've ever had are when i've reported people for blatant harassment (including one person very blatantly and intentionally trying to cause a normal raid roulette to fail). i guarantee that 99% of the people who were "wrongly banned for idly saying a curse word" are intentionally leaving out context to make themselves look innocent

It most certainly is not. I know several people who have been permabanned from this very forum for cursing. One described Weeping City as a cluster (you can fill in what word accompanied that) and were banned the next day. Ironically, you could search for curse words right now and likely find posts. They were just never reported.

[HyoMinPark]

Secondly why is it important to know which of the things that breaks the rules (sexual content, using a disparaging word for disabled people as a slur) is what got you in trouble? Just stop breaking the rules and you won’t get banned.

Because the following conversation makes very little sense:

GM: You’re getting a temporary suspension because you broke the ToS.
Player: Okay. What did I do/which rule did I break so I can know not to do this again in the future?
GM: Well, we can’t tell you that. Just don’t do it again.

The GMs are not very transparent about what transgression gets players in trouble, so it makes it really hard to rectify the behavior. If you get a ticket for parking in loading zone, then you know not to park there in the future. However, if you’re suspended with “just don’t do this again”, you don’t know what you did in the first place and you don’t know which behavior to rectify.

I’ve seen some people talk about reports from players regarding incidents that happened weeks/months prior that finally got addressed after some time, and they can’t seem to recall the specifics of what happened. Maybe they’d had a bad day and got snappy in party chat and someone got upset about it; but if they aren’t told “hey, you used some pretty strong language a few weeks ago during [dungeon run]—just avoid doing this again in the future”, then how do they know what to fix? I know I can’t remember bad run-ins that happened a few weeks ago because I tend to just wash my hands of them after an hour or so—perhaps this is the case for others.

Transparency on the offense would be good for players facing strikes to have so that they can ensure not to get the same strike later, and/or carefully monitor their future behavior. While there is no excuse when it comes to using derogatory speech or hate speech in chat, cursing is something that gets people in trouble despite this game having built-in chat censors for it. Transparency can also be given without outright revealing who may have reported someone, as I’ve seen some people express concerns about retaliation against the person who filed the report by the reported player.

[technole]

A bad day doesn't mean you can take it out on other players. The people who are surprised usually have a habit of being in the grey area for a ban but finally got caught. Whether saying offending words regularly but never been reported, streaming toxicity, etc. Spam or language I would believe are easy slip ups for bans.

The profanity filter is just a client setting, it doesn't preclude what you wrote in the server logs which some people will never understand. It's there so you don't unintentionally see it from some shout or linkshell chat, you might be streaming without a chat blocker and that's useful for that too. But if you are targeting someone with that language, you can be reported by anyone. Or at the very least get blacklisted, but all that does is ignore the chat. It's not hard for some GM to likely see a report saying this player wrote some offending language at 1/2/21 @ 12:25 GMT, and it's right there in the log. That's how easy it is.

Other bans like twitch streamers using language against other players live have occurred. Then there are more 'please don't leak' bans like the person on twitter whom data-mined and leaked TEA patch content that hadn't been seen live yet.