Why do people bother dodging aoe during trash pulls?

[Lumivyory]

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website.

Speedrunning is either boring or extremely nerve-wrecking, especially as a tank. Imo anyway.
And where exactly did the community improve? So many people are now all about speedrunning things and doing as much damage as possible while ignoring AoEs and mechanics. And for what? To be able to brag about their stats on that website?
Keep it to your raiding and out of casual content.
Also your "impressive" stats on that website don't make you a better player than the rest but then you yourself told another player to "learn about productivity" as if you somehow are above them and they should "git gud". Oh yes, great and nice community we've got here.

[Teno]

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website. You're just making up a boogeyman. The discord is also full of helpful people and based on it, it has spawned a whole network in The Balance which main purpose it to help other players. Some of you guys need to relax and stop pretending this is all just doom and gloom.

The only elitist stance in all this was this other guy calling people lazy sobs and throwing some hypocrisy on there. Anyway, I'm not here to argue, I just wanted to point out the blatant hypocrisy of that person. Signing off.

Sorry out of topic but where is your avatar from ?

[ForteNightshade]

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

The dev team knows the day they crack down on that website and the associated tools, is the day their raid scene dies with it. That aside, why do you get to decide what is and isn't fun? Mass pulling dungeons is the only way I feel like an actual tank because trash mobs hit like wet noodles. Thus, for me, single pulling is dreadfully boring—enough I have occasionally ate the 30 minute penalty simply because I dislike it. Likewise, trying to push damage is how I enjoy playing the game. I won't intentionally screw over other players, but learning how and where I can greed—even in casual content—makes it fun.

It's about principle and developing good habits. The content being a dungeon does not exempt that no matter how minimal the impact. Don't fall back on this excuse and then turn around and get upset if you find an ice mage in your dungeon group. In your own words, you have literally implied that you're banking on your healer having multitasking skills so you don't have to use them yourself. How is that considerate or courteous gameplay at all?

Gameplay in dungeons translates into gameplay in harder content. If I have a choice between two players to take with me into harder duties, and my choices are the two DPS players in my dungeon group; which one do you think I am going to pick between the one who cares to avoid unnecessary damage, and the one standing in all the AoEs? If the answer is: "I'm taking the one who does the most DPS." I might need to remind you that the DPS of an incapacitated player is zero.

This is a false equivalent. So long as people either don't die or can heal themselves up without issue, being hit by negligibly damaging AoEs is irrelevant. For example, I've ignored every single attack in E10N that requires me to disengage as a tank. Why? It literally doesn't matter. I have CDs I barely use, and even with vuln stacks his buster still doesn't do much. Therefore, why lose damage when it won't negatively impact anyone else? Which brings us back to Ice Mages. They do impact everyone else since their lack of damage directly contributes to the pull taking longer.

Put simply, greed is all about calculated risk. Standing in AoEs just because is dumb as there's no benefit other than you meme-ing. In which case, do that with friends. If you can heal yourself up or know no lethal damage will follow, then eating that AoE means nothing.

[Lumivyory]

The dev team knows the day they crack down on that website and the associated tools, is the day their raid scene dies with it. That aside, why do you get to decide what is and isn't fun? Mass pulling dungeons is the only way I feel like an actual tank because trash mobs hit like wet noodles. Thus, for me, single pulling is dreadfully boring—enough I have occasionally ate the 30 minute penalty simply because I dislike it. Likewise, trying to push damage is how I enjoy playing the game. I won't intentionally screw over other players, but learning how and where I can greed—even in casual content—makes it fun.

How would it die? Raiding exists to get better gear and have more challenging content. You don't need to compare yourself to others to be interested in raiding.

And well, just because it's fun for you it doesn't mean it's fun for everyone yet I've seen plenty of people pushing this "pull wall to wall" and "dps more" stuff onto those who don't consider this fun. I was literally told by someone here on the forums that if they were with me in a dungeon and I would single pull they would kick me.
Just recently a healer in Qitana Ravel literally Rescued me just so I'd pull everything. I hate big pulls but decided not to argue and oh boy, did I LOVE being at 10-20% HP constantly, so much fun it was, not stressful at all. /s
And then there are people that think you're not doing enough damage in their opinion so they try to tell you some nonsensical rotation they came up with, like using a Swiftcast on RDM. Man, does it trigger me every time.
So if eating AoEs with your face, giving your healer more job to do and constantly caring about how much damage you've done is fun for you - go ahead, but no need to push such playstyle on others which is what I've seen people do many times in casual content.

[Gemina]

This is a false equivalent. So long as people either don't die or can heal themselves up without issue, being hit by negligibly damaging AoEs is irrelevant. For example, I've ignored every single attack in E10N that requires me to disengage as a tank. Why? It literally doesn't matter. I have CDs I barely use, and even with vuln stacks his buster still doesn't do much. Therefore, why lose damage when it won't negatively impact anyone else? Which brings us back to Ice Mages. They do impact everyone else since their lack of damage directly contributes to the pull taking longer.

Put simply, greed is all about calculated risk. Standing in AoEs just because is dumb as there's no benefit other than you meme-ing. In which case, do that with friends. If you can heal yourself up or know no lethal damage will follow, then eating that AoE means nothing.

If you want use negligibility and irrelevancy in your argument, then the DPS gain you get by standing in an AoE- if any, also follows suit. We're talking dungeons here, remember? They don't have any kind of enrage, so even if you do have an ice mage, it also doesn't matter, and means absolutely nothing. You can argue time, but I wouldn't be using that argument if you are also going to use negligibility and meme creation. The time you will undoubtedly speak of is just as irrelevant to me, the ice mage; everyone except the person who complains about it, which basically puts you in the same boat as me when I talk about getting the eff out of AoEs, lethal or not.

Again, this isn't about uptime or damage taken. It simply shows good etiquette within your groups, as does trying to optimize and playing to the best of your ability. When all players do this, you get painless dungeon runs where everyone gets along, and they get through there asap. Most players when they see other players stand in an AoE don't think, "Oh.. he must know his limits." Usually they think you suck.

There's no greed here. At least not the kind associated with calculated risk. That happens in LoTA when one team decides to chisel away at Phlegethon's remaining health before he gets off another Acient Flare instead of retreating to their pad, or finishing TCJ when 3-4 AoE markers are right under you like I did. If there is a greed, it's the kind that says, "I can't be bothered to interrupt my casting."

[Mavrias]

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

Some people's idea of having fun is competition and rankings. I have never seen anyone kicked from casual content for damage specifically. Usually its for stuff like not AoEing trash pulls.

[Lumivyory]

Some people's idea of having fun is competition and rankings. I have never seen anyone kicked from casual content for damage specifically. Usually its for stuff like not AoEing trash pulls.

I understand some people have fun with it but with the amount of people I've seen that try push that kind of competitive behavior on those who might not even raid at all is crazy. That is what bothers me.
Healers and DPS pulling in 24-man raids and dungeons just to do more damage or pull everything even tho it's absolutely unnecessary and showing this kind of example to the new players also annoys me.

I disagree with kicking anyone for anything other than long afk, offline or trolling. Let people play the way they want or just politely ask them why they don't do this or that.
As I said in another post - someone was ready to kick me for single pulls as a tank which is not okay.

Perhaps it's you who hasn't considered you're in the minority. If three other people want to go fast, you insisting otherwise—regardless of your role—may cause friction. And they may opt to kick you. Conversely, if three people want to take the scenic route and enjoy exploring while someone else tries to force a speedrun, they have just as much right to boot them. It typically comes down majority rule.

Nevertheless, Shadowbringers dungeons offered you an alternative though: Trusts. They're more or less designed for people who prefer taking their time.

As for your HP. Seriously, don't concern yourself with your HP. Within reason, of course. It only really matters to the healer.

Considering that more and more people pick up this whole speedrunning mindset it's no wonder people like me are a minority.
But the thing is, going slow will makes someone bored at best. Going fast, on the other hand, will probably make someone stressed, especially if they are a tank or a healer. Which is better - being bored or stressed?
I'd rather people just communicate beforehand.

Unfortunately, not everything can be solved with Trusts. This was a Leveling Roulette run.

And I just can't not concern myself with my HP as I just don't want to die and start this pull all over again. And this adds to the stress, especially since there is just no way out of this pull once it's done. At some point I just run out of CDs and panic even more.
This is a big reason why I rarely do Leveling Roulette as a tank or a healer. While I enjoy tanking and main a healer this is not kind of tanking or healing I want.
People just never think about the fact that someone in a group might feel more than uncomfortable. Like I said above - would be nice for people to communicate, which, to be fair, does happen and I'm grateful to those that actually ask about big pulls before starting.

[HyoMinPark]

I wish that website would be taken down already.
What happened to, you know, having fun? Who cares how much damage you do. So tired of people always in a rush in casual content, so boring. This is borderline elitist behavior imo, because then such people will bash at you or even kick you because you don't meet their "standards".

Savage content is probably the only place where I'd accept DPS actually trying to do as much damage as they can.

Literally no one cares about logs for dungeons. It amuses me that people think individuals that actively use The Website That Shall Not Be Named are using it to look at dungeon runs.

It also amuses me that people who make the “what happened to just having fun” argument seem to think that only their definition of fun is applicable to the entire playerbase. For quite a portion of it, analyzing personal performance and min-maxing their jobs is the fun aspect of the game.

People are probably “in a rush” during dungeons because they’ve already done said dungeon 500 times, and they kind of stop being interesting at that point. If I’m just looking to get my tomes and get out, I’m not particularly in the mood to sightsee or spend half an hour in an Expert dungeon that takes half that time to complete. If I’m on an alt relaxing and doing the MSQ, then I’m far more willing to take my time in dungeons.

[Lumivyory]

It also amuses me that people who make the “what happened to just having fun” argument seem to think that only their definition of fun is applicable to the entire playerbase. For quite a portion of it, analyzing personal performance and min-maxing their jobs is the fun aspect of the game.

People are probably “in a rush” during dungeons because they’ve already done said dungeon 500 times, and they kind of stop being interesting at that point. If I’m just looking to get my tomes and get out, I’m not particularly in the mood to sightsee or spend half an hour in an Expert dungeon that takes half that time to complete. If I’m on an alt relaxing and doing the MSQ, then I’m far more willing to take my time in dungeons.

I stopped replying to this thread but I just like how you just took the very first message without reading into the whole thing.
Literally said afterwards that my problem was that people who like to rush things in dungeons and fight for whoever has the best DPS are pushing this onto those who might not find it fun. And then kick or shame them for "underperforming". And I'm not speaking about Expert specifically, I avoid Expert like a plague considering that I know people will rush.

Also pulling slower wouldn't make a run that much longer. AoE skills usually do less damage than single target skills so in the end even if you gather everything and start to AoE there will be only some minutes difference.

If you're tired and bored of the dungeon - don't do it. And no, I don't care about the tomestones.
I've been spamming World of Darkness and even though I've seen it a million times already since the day it came out I'm still not bored of it and do not want to get though it super fast and get out.
I don't understand this whole "I'm tired of doing this dungeon but I'm gonna do it anyway". Oh yeah, so much fun you guys are having.

[Reinha]

Literally no one cares about logs for dungeons. It amuses me that people think individuals that actively use The Website That Shall Not Be Named are using it to look at dungeon runs.

While I don't disagree with the rest of your post, I question why people are even uploading dungeon runs if supposedly not a single person cares. Is it a technical thing where they just upload everything in bulk? I've never used a parser and yet I sometimes find logs of me running dungeons, normal raids and alliance raids.