MNK Rework is a great start

[Drakanous]

I talk about this a lot on other platforms but they always ask people to post to the forums so, here goes:

I love this MNK rework in 5.4, not because it's a perfect fix, but because it cut out what I think was really holding MNK back. GL is a great concept and I like the notion that we attack faster than most melee jobs. How we got there compared to other melee jobs like NIN and SAM (who got the increased speed and damage with far less effort) was tedious. Not difficult, nor interesting, but tedious.

GL and Chakra never complimented each other. There were GL-centered skills and abilities, and Chakra-centered skills and abilities, but they worked separately and never intersected. Now, with GL as a trait (where I believe it rightfully belongs), the devs can focus on focusing on a more cohesive kit centered around Chakra. I think it's a far more interesting and satisfying concept to explore and expand on.

There's plenty more I'd like to see (including a bit more complexity for sure), but I'm very optimistic about the new direction because of these point.

[Irisdina_Wiloh]

I agree with what you're saying and I feel like we have a solid groundwork now for them to really improve on. I hope with 6.0 we really get to see some job identity given back to Monk as it was sorely lacking this expac. They've got a lot of work to do and this is really only the beginning but I am happy with where we're at right now (minus a few nitpicks).

[Valvadrix]

Definitely agreed. It felt like half of the abilities they've been adding in each expansion were different ways to upkeep GL. Now that they're not limited by it, hopefully they can experiment more and add more interesting abilities. GL was also very frustrating, even with being able to keep it on outside of combat because you'd run into situations where it's literally impossible anyway (a prime example would be the flying pods in the Copied Factory, most if not all of which lock you in an animation that's longer than GL's duration). And I'm glad to always be at full speed, as one of the reasons I dropped Monk in Stormblood was the speed inconsistency, both from Riddle of Fire slowing down your GCD and from dumping your stacks with Tornado Kick being implemented into your rotation. Here's hoping they can finally figure something out with the Fist stances.

[VentVanitas]

It was nice to see this thread after a near week of nothing but vitriol for the rework. Even if they still don't know what to do with the job, they're going to have to force themselves to finally think of something substantial in 6.0 since they can no longer churn out boring GL skills. A lot of people want to see Tifa inspiration, but in my opinion I think they should look to the OGs, I want to see Sabin skills personally and no, not just because of a suplex. It would be nice to get some actual iconic, traditional Final Fantasy Monk attacks like Aura Bolt, Rising Pheonix or Bum Rush.

Speaking of, I'm 100% certain there's a way Blitz can be introduced into the game without working as a copy of Mudras or forcing a pause in damage/rotation.

[SpeckledBurd]

It was nice to see this thread after a near week of nothing but vitriol for the rework. Even if they still don't know what to do with the job, they're going to have to force themselves to finally think of something substantial in 6.0 since they can no longer churn out boring GL skills. A lot of people want to see Tifa inspiration, but in my opinion I think they should look to the OGs, I want to see Sabin skills personally and no, not just because of a suplex. It would be nice to get some actual iconic, traditional Final Fantasy Monk attacks like Aura Bolt, Rising Pheonix or Bum Rush.

Speaking of, I'm 100% certain there's a way Blitz can be introduced into the game without working as a copy of Mudras or forcing a pause in damage/rotation.

While I agree that this is a good start, I can sorta get why people would be disappointed or concerned for the future.

The mere fact that it was called a rework at all comes with quite a few expectations as to how extensive it will actually be in terms of fixing issues. I'm certain the amount of effort and manpower that went into this was extensive due to how many parts of the kit had to change, however Monk had and still has a ton of issues and the number of those issues this addressed was relatively few. Just to name a few, chakra overcapping is still an issue, Chakra being RNG at all is itself an issue, Monk's mobility is still arguably the worst of the melee, Six Sided Star having a sprint didn't fix that and nor did the sprint make it any less lackluster as a capstone skill, Perfect Balance being used to spam Leaden Bootshine doesn't feel good and works poorly with how short Twin Snakes' timer is, and the Fists they're still wasted design space that may as well be a series of traits or eliminated. The rework actually exacerbated some of these problems, particularly Chakra overcapping and our Riddle of Fire window now having even more required weaving in it for how little slots we have to weave oGCDS even before Forbidden Chakra procs.

The other thing is that when they announced the 5.4 changes, they said that Monk was going to be reworked because it couldn't wait until 6.0. Now that the rework has been implemented, I think the best most anyone has to say about it is that it's a good foundation for rebuilding the job in 6.0. While some improvements were made, we're still essentially in the same position where we were before the rework happened: hoping that they'll fix a huge number of problems at a future date. And for a lot of Monk players, this is the second or third time they've been in that position. I think there's a very real fear that a 6.0 rework will just be them rereleasing 5.4 Monk without addressing the remaining longstanding issues because the developers have just... done that twice now with Monk. Once bitten, twice shy and all.

Not to say this isn't a small improvement on where it was and it's got more potential than it did before. There's more room for them to expand on the job in the future since at least some of the chuff has been cleaned up and there isn't a chance for them to make another two skills to upkeep Greased Lightning provided you jump through a given hoop. But this can't be where the devs leave it for another expansion like they've done with Monk in the past.

[Guesswhat]

If giving in to the lowest common denominator is a great start, then, sure, great start.

Monk is currently nothing; not sure how that is a start to anything. It's like calling a clean canvas a great start. Or wiping out your artwork with a single color and calling it a great start/rework.

I'm exaggerating, a bit, yes.

GL should not be traits; there are far greater methods of reworking this. For example: include Axe kick like it used to be in PvP, which could be used as a "I f***d up" button that instantly gives you full GC. But would mainly be used to include tornado kick in your rotation.

[SpeckledBurd]

Speaking of, I'm 100% certain there's a way Blitz can be introduced into the game without working as a copy of Mudras or forcing a pause in damage/rotation.

There was discussion on that in the 70 page "Monk needs a Rework" thread.

Essentially it would lean into Monk's Form based combos since there's still a ton of design potential there. Perfect Balance can be changed so it has the additional effect of allowing the use of a finisher should the proper sequence of three Weaponskills be used (which you still execute), with the sequence corresponding to the Form you'd normally need to be in to use the skill. So if a theoretical input was Coeurl>Raptor> Opo Opo to finish with a suplex, you'd use Snap Punch>Twin Snakes>Dragon Kick.

Even if they make major changes to Chakra so it's no longer RNG based as well as its other whole host of issues, which is still necessary considering Chakra is pretty much the worst designed mechanic on a DPS at the moment, they'll still need to add something else. Any gauge that just passively builds needs to have something complementing it in order to not be boring, it's why Kenki/Ninki aren't all that Samurai or Ninja have as far as mechanics go.

[VentVanitas]

There was discussion on that in the 70 page "Monk needs a Rework" thread.

Essentially it would lean into Monk's Form based combos since there's still a ton of design potential there. Perfect Balance can be changed so it has the additional effect of allowing the use of a finisher should the proper sequence of three Weaponskills be used (which you still execute), with the sequence corresponding to the Form you'd normally need to be in to use the skill. So if a theoretical input was Coeurl>Raptor> Opo Opo to finish with a suplex, you'd use Snap Punch>Twin Snakes>Dragon Kick.

Even if they make major changes to Chakra so it's no longer RNG based as well as its other whole host of issues, which is still necessary considering Chakra is pretty much the worst designed mechanic on a DPS at the moment, they'll still need to add something else. Any gauge that just passively builds needs to have something complementing it in order to not be boring, it's why Kenki/Ninki aren't all that Samurai or Ninja have as far as mechanics go.

Funny you mention this, because ever since I made that message I've been scouring the forums for ideas and suggestions on Blitz myself. And you're right, most discussions on it seem to boil down to making Perfect Balance the catalyst for Blitz and I can very easily see why. Being able to execute any form skill in any order, as well as the forms themselves being the way they are, it almost makes too much sense. Although I of course realise it is also because that players wish to see PB become something more involving and Blitz is an answer to that. My only minor nitpick about something like that is that it seems more like another effect of PB rather than a job unique mechanic. (Unless PB was made a shorter cooldown to be more frequent. Perhaps 2 charges of PB with 3 stacks, rather than having 1 PB and 6 stacks? Just spitballing) I have made my own sheet detailing on another possible route for Blitz as a rough concept but it is far too undeveloped to be worth sharing nor do I have confidence that it'd work better than the current popular idea of Blitz anyway.

That is if SE will even consider Blitz as it is for 6.0, seeing as how MNK has never had anything resembling its franchise counterpart in its kit. (unless you really want to count a handful of things that only share names with stuff from past games or Somersault, which has been removed from the game) They were barely able to think of a way to get Dualcast in the game, let alone other class-famous gimmicks.

[Jirah]

Formless Fist and the PB stacks were justification enough to make MNK better. Tornado kick being Ogcd is kinda bland and I get where the hatred stems from without sounding like a complete idiot and saying they aren’t unjus

Let’s see what this leads to in 6.0

[HeulGDarian]

Hi drak