Army's Paeon and Repertoire

[Sindal]

Right now, all army's Paeon does is stack to 4 and it gives you some extra speed for it's duration. Gaining repertoire effects after this point doesn't do anything (unless you have a soul gauge, but that's all the way at lvl 80)

I wondered if it could get an extra 'effect' that triggers on a proc, when you already have 4 stacks and cannot go further.

Paeon is a song that makes all of our Weapon skills better by making them faster, compared to ballad affecting ogcds and minuette giving us access to a new skill, so some ideas for the effect:

1)Gives a charge that can stack 2 or 3 times when repertoire triggers at full stacks. The next Straight shot or Refulgent arrow use while in Paeon has a slight potency increase and uses up a charge. Charges disappear when either Paeon ends or the Army's muse extension ends.

2)Gives a charge that can stack 2 or 3 times when repertoire triggers at full stacks. The next Quick Nock use while in Paeon has a slight potency increase and uses up a charge. Charges disappear when either Paeon ends or the Army's muse extension ends.

3)Sends out a small healing 'pulse' to yourself and nearby party members, lets say 50 or 100 potency for argument sake, each time you proc repertoire at full stacks (In reference to the skill's use in FF11)

(Not implying it should happen, I just always thought it was a shame that it does 'nothing' after reaching it's cap. Ballad and Minuet are designed in a way that you want to get the most procs out of them as possible.)

Thoughts?

[CKNovel]

Jobs are designed for lv80.
I do agree that SQEX should pay attention to 70 balance due to ultimate or that Ultimate content should be on "Unreal", everything scaled to 80.

It's not usefull to touch the job for this specific level since you don't have the full kit yet.
Or else we would have a whole rework on lv70 BLM

[Jirah]

The repertoire generation needs to be fixed before your aloud to expend them before 68.

When I’m 50-67 I have a real difficult time getting 3 stacks let alone 5 due to how few the stacks they give before they buffed it in the 60s. Emperyl Arrow should be able to proc a repertoire once givin not so deep in the 60s

Currently at 80 I’m fine with Army’s as it’s a nice chill calm before the Minuet storm where all your concerned about is hitting Blood and Emperyl and refulgent procs. No blood spam and no Pitch perfect just a calm phase. Despite being fine with it I’d love more to do. BRD is a busy job by a country mile compared to its cousins but I’d love more from the job

[HyperiusUltima]

The repertoire generation needs to be fixed before your aloud to expend them before 68.

When I’m 50-67 I have a real difficult time getting 3 stacks let alone 5 due to how few the stacks they give before they buffed it in the 60s. Emperyl Arrow should be able to proc a repertoire once givin not so deep in the 60s

Currently at 80 I’m fine with Army’s as it’s a nice chill calm before the Minuet storm where all your concerned about is hitting Blood and Emperyl and refulgent procs. No blood spam and no Pitch perfect just a calm phase. Despite being fine with it I’d love more to do. BRD is a busy job by a country mile compared to its cousins but I’d love more from the job

If you want a more busy job DNC is where it's at. The time before you are able to get Empyreal procs is alright and gameplay gets smoothed out as you continue to level. From 50-60 you're generally just getting your full Song Rotation along with a couple other cooldowns(Troubadour, EA, Sidewinder) and when you get into Stormblood it just adds a couple bells and whistles to make it a little better in time for Shadowbringers. I don't think there's an issue with Army's, since having a phase where you're not hard pressed to keep up with procs all the time(which, mind you, is TWO busy 30s phases while Army's is a good rest phase. As for repertoire generation, I don't think anything's wrong with it before 68. That's just RNG for you since the set rate is 40%. We can't go back to Stormblood BRD(Full Crit reliance for procs, meaning being shoehorned with DRG and SCH to be competitive) either, and I fell the current iteration is fine.

[HyperiusUltima]

Right now, all army's Paeon does is stack to 4 and it gives you some extra speed for it's duration. Gaining repertoire effects after this point doesn't do anything (unless you have a soul gauge, but that's all the way at lvl 80)

I wondered if it could get an extra 'effect' that triggers on a proc, when you already have 4 stacks and cannot go further.

Paeon is a song that makes all of our Weapon skills better by making them faster, compared to ballad affecting ogcds and minuette giving us access to a new skill, so some ideas for the effect:

1)Gives a charge that can stack 2 or 3 times when repertoire triggers at full stacks. The next Straight shot or Refulgent arrow use while in Paeon has a slight potency increase and uses up a charge. Charges disappear when either Paeon ends or the Army's muse extension ends.

2)Gives a charge that can stack 2 or 3 times when repertoire triggers at full stacks. The next Quick Nock use while in Paeon has a slight potency increase and uses up a charge. Charges disappear when either Paeon ends or the Army's muse extension ends.

3)Sends out a small healing 'pulse' to yourself and nearby party members, lets say 50 or 100 potency for argument sake, each time you proc repertoire at full stacks (In reference to the skill's use in FF11)

(Not implying it should happen, I just always thought it was a shame that it does 'nothing' after reaching it's cap. Ballad and Minuet are designed in a way that you want to get the most procs out of them as possible.)

Thoughts?

I generally don't think this is a good idea. BRD already has enough utility and is still down there in terms of DPS; it doesn't need more of a reason to stay down with healing(plus, DNC already has that niche). As for the slight potency increases for extra repertoire, I don't think so. That'd just be an attempt to make Army's better but still fail in execution because you're still waiting on an RA Proc either way. If anything, I think the repertoire system is fine as it currently is.

As for Army's Paeon doing 'nothing', it does something from a trait you get at 78:

While under the effect of Army's Paeon with at least one stack of Repertoire, singing Mage's Ballad or the Wanderer's Minuet will grant Army's Muse, reducing weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay.
Duration: 10s
1 Repertoire: 1%
2 Repertoire: 2%
3 Repertoire: 4%
4 Repertoire: 12%

It makes your Minuet Phase faster and gives you more GCDs with that Haste it throws in there for you, so you want to make the most of it(despite RNG trying to spite you on Army's sometimes, but RNG is RNG).

[Sindal]

So far in summary:

-Jobs are designed for end game (currently lvl 80)
-Army's Muse exists and therefor does something after you get 4 stacks.
-Army's Paeon is the 'cooldown' song where you don't do anything complicated
-You may not get procs to make the 5th proc worth it.
-They have enough utility and dancer already has some of that nique
-The repertoire system is fine as it is.

Do I have that right?

My takeaways when reading those
•Sure. What does that have to do with giving AP a Rep effect after it's 4th instance instead of them being 'wasted'? Surely something could be designed in if it makes the class more interesting to play.
•I know that Army's Muse exists. Army's muse doesn't change the fact you get nothing from your repetoire stacks once you hit 4 while in AP. If anything it encourages you to end the song early so you can get into the 'songs that matter'. It solves part of a problem but I think it's a bit of a shame that you're 'not intended' to finish the song, though I will respect that it is atleast a solution to the problem that exists.
•None of my suggestions changed how you would have played the bard. A smidge potency to the abilities you were already using or a tiny heal (or even a shield, to differentate themselves for the dancer heal. Reliable? No. Would it be useful to shave off some aoe? Probably ) that doesn't require any extra button press.
•You might not. It's totally true. Granted in trash pulls when there's enough DoT targets, you could still reasonably get your 5th and 6th proc of Rep. My issue was never the random nature of Rep, more that it 'does nothing' after the forth stack in AP. If I knew that AP had an additional effect after getting 4 stacks I'd be pretty engaged in trying to make sure atleast 2 of my targets are dotted to work toward the reward.
•Utility that's unique to bard is Wanderer's Paean (Highly situational), Battle voice (a 3 minute cooldown for 20 seconds of a buff), Nature's Minne (Typically isn't strong enough to bother using given the strength of healers) and Troubadour (Except it's not unique). That's not really a lot, and 2 of the 4 I mentioned are buttons that could not be on your bar and very little difference would be noted.
•It is. I acutally like the Repetoir system. Which is why I think it's a shame that the triggers 'do nothing' for AP after a certain point. Triggering Repetoir feels fun to me. I like it when it triggers. I'd like it to do something when it triggers.

Oh, going through this just made me think of a 4th possible addition to an effect that can trigger.

4)Triggering Rep while in Army's Paeon and already possessing 4 stacks lowers the cooldown of Battle Voice by X seconds (lets say 5 for argument sake). Given BV's massive cooldown (You can cycle through each song twice before it comes back) that could be pretty neat without adding too massive amounts of power.

But yeah. Just my thoughts

[Rika007]

I generally don't think this is a good idea. BRD already has enough utility and is still down there in terms of DPS;

BRD's utility is an absolute joke, and all three ranged DPS do way to low damage as it is. Adding any more isn't suddenly gonna break the bank. If anything Bard needs at least two more good raid utility abilities to get back the support niche it was robbed of.

It makes your Minuet Phase faster and gives you more GCDs with that Haste it throws in there for you, so you want to make the most of it(despite RNG trying to spite you on Army's sometimes, but RNG is RNG).

This is actually a problem though. One of Bard's most important things is the strength of it's OGCD's and double weaving. Army's Muse actually makes double weaving impossible while it is active, which more often then not screws you over and the only real benefit is one extra GCD under the raging strikes window. There is a reason every BRD endgame BIS ignores Skill Speed like it is cancer. The mechanic leads to far more frustrations than it does anything else.

[HyperiusUltima]

BRD's utility is an absolute joke, and all three ranged DPS do way to low damage as it is. Adding any more isn't suddenly gonna break the bank. If anything Bard needs at least two more good raid utility abilities to get back the support niche it was robbed of.



This is actually a problem though. One of Bard's most important things is the strength of it's OGCD's and double weaving. Army's Muse actually makes double weaving impossible while it is active, which more often then not screws you over and the only real benefit is one extra GCD under the raging strikes window. There is a reason every BRD endgame BIS ignores Skill Speed like it is cancer. The mechanic leads to far more frustrations than it does anything else.

Then let's think of ways around this. They re-implemented the song buffs but did so in VERY LITTLE increments out of a fear they erased(BRD being insanely strong when they completely changed the game). They only gave BRD very little potency increases(like baby steps) each tier and patch.

I'm of the sentiment Ranged are a joke right now, but I say that BRD has enough utility in the manner that if we add anymore, SE will see it as a tax. We also need to add DPS to the job in a meaningful manner(on Ranged across the board).

For BRD, honestly I wish they never implemented scaling on Apex to be like that because even if it's AoE, the damage is just like shooting a wet noodle if you do it at 50; thus, you're stuck on using it at 100 or 90 for decent damage. All they really need to do is just make it a flat CD(like every 80s for burst windows) and keep the AoE. They didn't need to tack on another gauge either, considering it's just an entire gauge that's there at 80 to make you stare at the gauges more, as if people don't already sometimes.

[Jirah]

If you want a more busy job DNC is

I’ll stop you right there, DNC is no where near as fun as the mains think it is. I only use DNC when it’s 3am and need a DPS to turn off my brain for. After leveling it up and transitioning to other jobs (besides MCH of course) it’s almost night and day even RDM feels more fluid to play. Not to say it’s a bad job just...when I think of DNC “busy” isn’t a word I’d describe it as. It’s very straight forward and lacks he spice value BRD has with its song transitions.

[Cetonis]

This is actually a problem though. One of Bard's most important things is the strength of it's OGCD's and double weaving. Army's Muse actually makes double weaving impossible while it is active, which more often then not screws you over and the only real benefit is one extra GCD under the raging strikes window. There is a reason every BRD endgame BIS ignores Skill Speed like it is cancer. The mechanic leads to far more frustrations than it does anything else.

Other than the general point of Muse being bad design, the specifics here are incorrect. With good ping (yes, ping dependency, wonderful) you can just barely double weave in Muse, even with some SkS.

And Bard BIS does not avoid SkS - in fact, Muse forces us to take some. If you roll with a 2.5s GCD, Muse creates a traffic jam at the end of WM between your GCD and the song expiration, which is not resolvable in any particularly good way. By having a GCD of 2.48s or less, it's possible (if you avoid all clips, see: ping dependency) to create a brief window to get a last-moment PP off after the last GCD before moving into MB.

Stuff like this end-of-WM / Muse headache, and of course the Empyreal inside of Ballad problem, as well as some other issues, are all certainly more important than max-AP feelsbad while leveling. And even among while-leveling matters, I'd say a too-low early proc rate and Straight Shot's meager +20p over Heavy Shot are both bigger feelsbad issues.