Consumable arrows

[Findel]

Consumable Arrows are not just about a Gil Sink. Having Consumable Arrows allows for Archers to have Significantly Higher Damage and Future access to Addition skills with Status Effect Arrows. If you make Arrows unlimited you cannot have things like Sleep Arrows, Drain arrows or Fire arrows. Also, the average Damage of every arrow would need to be reduced. Gil for Damage is the Concept. You can greatly increase your Damage by purchasing higher quality arrows or you can get a full stack for 2k and not take the dmg bonus.

Your not supposed to grind with Cobalt Arrows.

The problem is our significantly higher damage as you put it is not that. It's average compared to the other classes and yet we have to PAY to keep that damage up. And one could argue that there are throwing weapons for other classes, but I have yet to meet a player that uses them. And even then that would be added damage on top of their non-consumable weapon damage.

If you ask me, this argument is invalid since we don't seriously out damage all other jobs who do not have to constantly sink gil just to attack. I mean, if I swapped out for Warped Arrows, which is still paying money to do any damage on Bard/Archer since my bow is worthless without it. And even when I do, my damage drops fairly significantly where Dragoon, Warrior, Monk or Black Mage do not have to continually purchase a consumable to alter their DPS.

Now, if you made it where the quiver only allow for so many shots before Reload would have to be used, then it could balance out. I just do not see how you claim that we can't have arrow types with unlimited ammo with my Quiver idea. So a Fire Quiver allows for Fire Arrows, Sleep Quiver for Sleep Arrows, Etc.

And honestly without gear swaps while engaged, which I doubt we will see in this game, situational arrows won't be super effective. The only way this could be done effectively is with a skill or spell that enchants the next show with X effect. Something similar to the fist abilities of Pugilist/Monk.

[Wevlum]

I love seeing folks with classes at level 0, explain how those who have then at level 50 are wrong in what they say about them or how something will effect them.

Anyway, they are phasing alot the goldsmith portion of the arrowns out anyway, they are making the new arrows in a manner that the arrow head comes from blacksmith now instead of goldsmith. Now GDS/BLS share responsobility for the making of materials for arrow heads. Arrowheads ae a simple recipe, and fill level gaps. Thus, they are a staple for leveling the classes at points. Whatthat has todowith thre making of jewelry and weapons I will never know.

All I know is I can see it effecting 3 DoH and 2 DoL all of which I have leveled to some extent and one or so I haveapped. So I find it interesting that a poster having those same classes at 0 debating it.

All that being said, from the perspective of bard being my main, I am for the non-consumables idea.

...So unless I have them at 50 I'm not allowed to talk about them, K

[Wevlum]

The problem is our significantly higher damage as you put it is not that. It's average compared to the other classes and yet we have to PAY to keep that damage up. And one could argue that there are throwing weapons for other classes, but I have yet to meet a player that uses them. And even then that would be added damage on top of their non-consumable weapon damage.

If you ask me, this argument is invalid since we don't seriously out damage all other jobs who do not have to constantly sink gil just to attack. I mean, if I swapped out for Warped Arrows, which is still paying money to do any damage on Bard/Archer since my bow is worthless without it. And even when I do, my damage drops fairly significantly where Dragoon, Warrior, Monk or Black Mage do not have to continually purchase a consumable to alter their DPS.

Now, if you made it where the quiver only allow for so many shots before Reload would have to be used, then it could balance out. I just do not see how you claim that we can't have arrow types with unlimited ammo with my Quiver idea. So a Fire Quiver allows for Fire Arrows, Sleep Quiver for Sleep Arrows, Etc.

And honestly without gear swaps while engaged, which I doubt we will see in this game, situational arrows won't be super effective. The only way this could be done effectively is with a skill or spell that enchants the next show with X effect. Something similar to the fist abilities of Pugilist/Monk.

Won't go into too much detail since Findel pretty much nailed it but... we don't do the highest damage so the only thing we're paying for, since our damage is average, is the safety of range...which blms and whms enjoy without paying gil.

Also "Also, the average Damage of every arrow would need to be reduced." it wouldn't really. The game is balanced around the jobs/classes going 'all out'. When they balance things they probably expect the bard to be using the best ammo and for any content that matters bards will be using the best ammo or they won't be playing as bard. When you gear bard for combat you make sure you have enough cobalt arrows to last the entire fight, so the end result is you're behaving the same as the other DDs (i.e. a consistent damage level) but you're paying per shot. No good bard is going to take 20 cobalts, use them then switch to warped is what I'm suggesting.

[Teia]

I love seeing folks with classes at level 0, explain how those who have then at level 50 are wrong in what they say about them or how something will effect them.

Says someone whose BTN is 31, whose CRP is 23, and whose BSM is only 13. Please, continue to explain through your vast personal experience just how these issues affect people with the relevant classes at 50.

[Coglin]

...So unless I have them at 50 I'm not allowed to talk about them, K

Nope. Just referencing that if you making jewelry is all that GLS isabout you clearly are clueless about the class. I explained to you how it would be effected by the change bassed on my experience and you posted some off kilter opinion. I never said you can't post about anything. Your simply trying to put word in my mouth for what reason? Just because I posted a slight disagreeance?

Says someone whose BTN is 31, whose CRP is 23, and whose BSM is only 13. Please, continue to explain through your vast personal experience just how these issues affect people with the relevant classes at 50.

Whats that got to do with a conversation about GLS there genious? Is 31/23/13 not higher then 0? Oh wait, that doesn't matter because GLS was being discussed, and the effects of removing recipies to it. Had you actually read the thread, and wern't just trolling it, you might no this. Had you not been purely trolling it, perhaps you would have actually added something to the conversation.

[Findel]

Last I checked Coglin, arrows no longer require arrowheads to be synthed and if you are referring to using dated synths for exp, this is going away anyhow and is a pointless argument. The only craft this would effect is carpenter as quivers would obviously be a leather worker synth.

[Kiote]

The problem is our significantly higher damage as you put it is not that. It's average compared to the other classes and yet we have to PAY to keep that damage up.

Arc/Brd on average does 10k more damage than any other melee class in every boss fight when using Cobalt Arrows. That is a fact. On top of that, you can hit enemies from anywhere on the map without moving, a Huge advantage.

High End Arrows are for Dungeons and Boss Fight. No one should be burning through 999 Arrows on any of those endeavors.

And honestly without gear swaps while engaged, which I doubt we will see in this game, situational arrows won't be super effective.

I'm fairly positive you can in fact swap ammo while engaged. If you cannot, you will be able to in the future. That will very quickly be addressed when Status/Elemental/Damage Type Arrows are Implemented.

[Arcell]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if ammunition does not have any special effect or reason to use different types, there's no reason for it to be a consumable. Maybe an equippable item if they want to keep the progression through the levels but not as a consumable.

Arrows right now work just like any other equipment, they do the exact same thing but just get stronger as you go up. There's no special arrows, no coatings, nothing to differentiate them aside from damage.

If there were special arrow types that could be used to achieve some sort of status effect or incap then I'd be all for consumable arrows. As it stands though there's no need and on top of that it would be quite difficult. Arrows count as equipment and we can't change equipment mid-battle. There's no system in place for ease of changing ammo types like there is in Monster Hunter or Gods Eater Burst.

Edit:

Arc/Brd on average does 10k more damage than any other melee class in every boss fight when using Cobalt Arrows. That is a fact. On top of that, you can hit enemies from anywhere on the map without moving, a Huge advantage.

Lol that's pretty funny, calling BS on that one. Monks, Dragoons and Warriors should be able to outdamage a Bard on most fights. Moogle is one of the exceptions since there's a lot of moving around and Bard doesn't have to move, that's about it. So you're saying that Bard can get the highest damage on Ifrit or any of the bosses from AV or CC compared to equally skilled/geared melee DDs?

[Wevlum]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that if ammunition does not have any special effect or reason to use different types, there's no reason for it to be a consumable. Maybe an equippable item if they want to keep the progression through the levels but not as a consumable.

Arrows right now work just like any other equipment, they do the exact same thing but just get stronger as you go up. There's no special arrows, no coatings, nothing to differentiate them aside from damage.

If there were special arrow types that could be used to achieve some sort of status effect or incap then I'd be all for consumable arrows. As it stands though there's no need and on top of that it would be quite difficult. Arrows count as equipment and we can't change equipment mid-battle. There's no system in place for ease of changing ammo types like there is in Monster Hunter or Gods Eater Burst.




Lol that's pretty funny, calling BS on that one. Monks, Dragoons and Warriors should be able to outdamage a Bard on most fights. Moogle is one of the exceptions since there's a lot of moving around and Bard doesn't have to move, that's about it. So you're saying that Bard can get the highest damage on Ifrit or any of the bosses from AV or CC compared to equally skilled/geared melee DDs?

I wonder if we could have both...quivers for non-consumable arrows that are purely about the damage and consumable arrows for arrows that have special effects. Maybe we could even keep the status effect arrows in the waist slot or something and have a skill to switch between the two ammo slots?

That said... weaponskills are generally how classes currently do additional effects and maybe the archer/assassin class will take this role since enfeebling, buffing and DD seems like quite a lot for one job. Basically with the dev team changing and just the general changes happening to ffxiv I wonder if the current dev team are even planning for archer/bard to have arrows with special effects like sleep/poison. It'd be nice to get a dev response on this.

[Arcell]

Well I mean in FFTA Archers/Snipers had a lot of enfeebling shots (blind, pacification, bind, etc...). They could certainly go that route again.

Another option would be something like how Guild Wars preparations work. You hit the skill and, for example, your arrows now inflict poison for the next 30 seconds. They also had burn dmg arrows, interrupt arrows, explosive arrows and the like which were all done through applying a preparation.