Consumable arrows

[Arcell]

Well I mean in FFTA Archers/Snipers had a lot of enfeebling shots (blind, pacification, bind, etc...). They could certainly go that route again.

Another option would be something like how Guild Wars preparations work. You hit the skill and, for example, your arrows now inflict poison for the next 30 seconds. They also had burn dmg arrows, interrupt arrows, explosive arrows and the like which were all done through applying a preparation.

[Zuellni]

For me, the best part about archer vs mages is the ability to maintain range and keep dps up without having to sit around and wait for animation to complete. But it really would be nice to have elemental arrows or specific status arrows again. However, I'm sure once we have that, brd/arc would start complaining about how they're expected to carry 20 different types of arrows etc etc.

[Wevlum]

I find it rather comical that you're using the classes that make eq as a justification for what affects the class that actually has to *use* the arrows. Paladins should have no impact on shields because 4-5 other jobs are involved in making shields.

Also I don't think you should be telling level 50 crafters and gatherers like Arcell how they will or won't feel.

I wanted to debate archer itself but you made it about crafters/gatherers claiming how they're affected by a change to archer is more important than how archers are affected.

[Atoli]

All the money I ever spend is on arrows, which is kind of annoying, but still I'm fine with it
It's good for the crafters and the economy, and I also think it's fair.
Yes, BLM can cast without consuming any ammo, but BLM also runs out of MP very fast.
Once their MP are gone, they are totally helpless and useless.
Archers on the other hand can just keep on shooting unless they forgot to bring enough arrows to a fight..which should never happen

[Arcell]

All the money I ever spend is on arrows, which is kind of annoying, but still I'm fine with it
It's good for the crafters and the economy, and I also think it's fair.
Yes, BLM can cast without consuming any ammo, but BLM also runs out of MP very fast.
Once their MP are gone, they are totally helpless and useless.
Archers on the other hand can just keep on shooting unless they forgot to bring enough arrows to a fight..which should never happen

True however BLMs can just stand still to regain MP, as well as have Bards sing or use some of their own MP regen skills. Archers can't do that with arrows.

[Arcell]

So again you typed out a lot without really saying anything. Why is this a true detriment to anyone, Goldsmiths especially? You didn't really refute that claim, you just asked if I ate paint chips as a kid. Hardly an actual defense for your argument.

Refute the argument that Goldsmiths have little to do with this thread. Goldsmiths only make ONE type of ingot used for arrows, out of five. Goldsmiths aren't even able to make the other four. Goldsmiths have many other recipes that they can level on and make money off of. Why are arrows so important to them?

You keep saying that they are the most used item in the game and yet you refuse to acknowledge that they are also the item with the highest production volume in the game. Refute that, I dare you.

You have as many facts as me? Show them then. Start posting actual numbers and real arguments and maybe I'll take you seriously for a second. You have yet to post any kind of real info supporting your argument.

You're right a DoH can support a Bard in replenishing arrows. So, show of hands here, who has a DoH with them when they go into dungeons, Primal fights, or any end-game content that simply follows them around and gives them arrows? Anybody? No, didn't think so. Meanwhile Bards are a common part of party setups in end-game content, more likely to have one around at any given time.

So seriously, convince me that this is an actual issue for DoL/H. Convince me that losing arrows as a consumed item will be a drastic detriment to them. Show me how it would so adversely affect Goldsmith because honestly, I'm seeing them lose a SINGLE source of people buying Mythril ingots among a great many. If you can't do this then your argument really doesn't hold any merit. And don't come back with "I don't have to prove anything to you" or "It's so obvious I shouldn't have to explain it." If you can't explain it in detail, don't bother posting.

[Coglin]

So again you typed out a lot without really saying anything. Why is this a true detriment to anyone, Goldsmiths especially? You didn't really refute that claim, you just asked if I ate paint chips as a kid. Hardly an actual defense for your argument.

Umm, because we make items for arrows the most consumed item in the game. Just because you do notunderstand it does not make it less true.

Refute the argument that Goldsmiths have little to do with this thread. Goldsmiths only make ONE type of ingot used for arrows, out of five. Goldsmiths aren't even able to make the other four. Goldsmiths have many other recipes that they can level on and make money off of. Why are arrows so important to them?

Umm we make material for arrows, its a fact. I am unclear why you keep demanding I restate hard fact to "refute" your opinion of class and its relative effectiveness, particularly whenyou havelimited to no experience with it.
You keep saying that they are the most used item in the game and yet you refuse to acknowledge that they are also the item with the highest production volume in the game. Refute that, I dare you.

Refute what exactly? If I do not disagree with something why would I refute it? Now your just being creepy.
It has a high production volume for a reason. Which is why that fact supports my point.
You have as many facts as me? Show them then. Start posting actual numbers and real arguments and maybe I'll take you seriously for a second. You have yet to post any kind of real info supporting your argument.
Ummkay......I see someone forgot there lithium this morning. I don't need more facts then you tohave my opinion and stance. AlthoughI have posted some, you simply evade them and pretend thy were not posted ordo notexist.
You're right a DoH can support a Bard in replenishing arrows. So, show of hands here, who has a DoH with them when they go into dungeons, Primal fights, or any end-game content that simply follows them around and gives them arrows? Anybody? No, didn't think so. Meanwhile Bards are a common part of party setups in end-game content, more likely to have one around at any given time.
Anyone and everyone who levels it. In case you forget I can change from Bard to moner to goldsmith to armorer to carpenter as easily as I can change to blackmage. Now your just not makingsense.

So seriously, convince me that this is an actual issue for DoL/H. Convince me that losing arrows as a consumed item will be a drastic detriment to them. Show me how it would so adversely affect Goldsmith because honestly, I'm seeing them lose a SINGLE source of people buying Mythril ingots among a great many. If you can't do this then your argument really doesn't hold any merit. And don't come back with "I don't have to prove anything to you" or "It's so obvious I shouldn't have to explain it." If you can't explain it in detail, don't bother posting.

Sorry, but I do not have to convince you of jack squat, and I don't think your in any position to stop me from posting. Feel free to try though. I have stated my opinion based on my perspective and experiences, if that breaks your fragile little heart, that your problem. If you care to remoe your blinders, I am sure even the simplest of minds can comprehind that it would effet other classes, and as I am leveling Bot/Crp myself, I find my view from there, and my growing experience from thise 2 addition classes, and experience as a archer/bard, gives me a highly relavent oppinion.

Admitt it, you love green too.

[Teia]

Goldsmiths only make ONE type of ingot used for arrows, out of five. Goldsmiths aren't even able to make the other four. Goldsmiths have many other recipes that they can level on and make money off of. Why are arrows so important to them?

And speaking as someone who can make any arrow ingot in the game, I wouldn't even notice if arrow recipes were removed wholesale. Because that apparently makes my opinion hold more weight, or something. Hell, according to his logic, my 10 levels in CRP (I played it once to get Tender Touch then never played it again) makes me automatically more qualified to talk about arrows than someone with it at 0. Somehow.

Remember, though, you're arguing with someone who basically responded to "as a gatherer, I say this" with "you don't get to say that, your perspective doesn't apply to everyone, but as a gatherer, here's a perspective I'm applying to everyone." It's pretty much a textbook case of hypocrisy.

[Arcell]

So Coglin, basically you can't explain your argument then? Yeah, didn't think so. You said the exact things I knew you would, as stated in my own post. You refuted absolutely nothing and ignored any actual arguments. You resorted to personal insults as well, good job. You've proven that you actually have absolutely no argument with any footing in reality. Prove me wrong and I'll admit you're right. Though I doubt that'll happen as you can't. Prove me wrong, I would absolutely love to see you try. Use actual facts and real arguments instead of just attacking me personally. If you can't do this, which I believe is the case, your thoughts have absolutely no bearing on this thread.

[Coglin]

So Coglin, basically you can't explain your argument then? Yeah, didn't think so. You said the exact things I knew you would, as stated in my own post. You refuted absolutely nothing and ignored any actual arguments. You resorted to personal insults as well, good job. You've proven that you actually have absolutely no argument with any footing in reality. Prove me wrong and I'll admit you're right. Though I doubt that'll happen as you can't. Prove me wrong, I would absolutely love to see you try. Use actual facts and real arguments instead of just attacking me personally. If you can't do this, which I believe is the case, your thoughts have absolutely no bearing on this thread.

So my opinion and perspective are invalid because I didn't prove them to a couple of idiots who demanded I do. Everyone loves an opinion nazi.

You're arguing with someone who basically responded to "as a gatherer, I say this" with "you don't get to say that, your perspective doesn't apply to everyone, but as a gatherer, here's a perspective I'm applying to everyone." It's pretty much a textbook case of hypocrisy.

Please quote specificly where I made either statement.