MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[SturmChurro]

You do realize Yoshi has answered this question in an interview a couple months back. They are not cutting down/making it optional for free regarding the MSQ as it would be removing a core feature of the FF franchise. This is a Final Fantasy game first and foremost and it has always been about the story everything else like the 8 and 24 man raids are secondary. This is one of the reason why the trail was expanding out to HW and probably after 6.0 drops it will be expanded out to StB. So players don't spend a lot of money playing catch up and can do it at their leisure. One of the big reason it takes people so long is people flip flopping between jobs. If players truly want to miss out on the core, then there is the msq skip pot they can purchase as he pointed out.

I have never once thought their stupid skips wouldn't lead to the current expansion, but I hope they realize they are losing players who don't want to spend centuries doing the MSQ to play with their friends (or just do more relevant content), or pay the 25 bucks or whatever ON TOP of what they may have paid for the game itself, and the expansion. Shortsighted, in my opinion. Definitely panders to a base though.

[DPZ2]

I hope they realize they are losing players who don't want to spend centuries doing the MSQ to play with their friends (or just do more relevant content), or pay the 25 bucks or whatever ON TOP of what they may have paid for the game itself, and the expansion. Shortsighted, in my opinion. Definitely panders to a base though.

How shall I put this?

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the story greatly outweighs the number of players who might stop because the story is too long? Perhaps the company has metrics that you cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each MSQ?

And maybe, just maybe, it doesn't really take 'centuries' to go through the MSQ to max level on a single job and more players enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

You can say "I don't like it, and I'm quitting because it's too long". Anecdotally, you can say "I invited 10 friends to play the free trial, and they all lost interest around level 40".

I wouldn't recommend this game to a friend solely based on current content. Many of my friends prefer table-top RPGs when we want to play together.

[SturmChurro]

How shall I put this?

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the story greatly outweighs the number of players who might stop because the story is too long? Perhaps the company has metrics that you cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each MSQ?

And maybe, just maybe, it doesn't really take 'centuries' to go through the MSQ to max level on a single job and more players enjoy the journey as much as the destination.

You can say "I don't like it, and I'm quitting because it's too long". Anecdotally, you can say "I invited 10 friends to play the free trial, and they all lost interest around level 40".

I wouldn't recommend this game to a friend solely based on current content. Many of my friends prefer table-top RPGs when we want to play together.

I agree. SE may really just prefer to cater to a base rather than a potential larger audience, and continue to go down the safe formulaic heaven that is their patch cycle. Considering everything they do outside that formula the community seems to largely DISLIKE, it makes sense. Why not just cater to this base? When they will staunchly defend whatever is handed to them. no criticism, little feedback. Requiring players to spend... what was it.. two weeks, or 24 hours just to get through ARR alone (which is supposedly a short amount of time, lol), or be given the gracious opportunity of spending $25 for a story skip, if they want to get to endgame - Rather where more of the game actually opens up, not JUST endgame content.

Specifically catering to that base certainly makes sense with all the trash fan service they seem to be packing into their plotlines as of late. "G'raha Tia at your service", and the awful gaia/ryne story arc. I'm tired of this teenage trash, I wish they would get back to actual plotlines. I'd rather see more of cartoon villian Zenos than suffer through G'raha Tia - I hope Zenos cuts him in half.

As they say, "this game just isn't for them", amirite?

[DPZ2]

As they say, "this game just isn't for them", amirite?

Catering to their base is exactly what game companies do.

"Trash fan service" is a personal opinion, not useful feedback or criticism.

[SturmChurro]

Catering to their base is exactly what game companies do.

"Trash fan service" is a personal opinion, not useful feedback or criticism.

How so? Both G'raha Tia (at your service), and Ryne/Gaia storylines objectively suck. I just want them to start telling good stories again, it's very useful feedback. It is the definition of constructive criticism. I presume all of us here like a good story as much as the next person. We are all FF players, afterall.

The game wouldn't be for us otherwise.

Also, I said catering to a base.

[Vahlnir]

How so? Both G'raha Tia (at your service), and Ryne/Gaia storylines objectively suck. I just want them to start telling good stories again, it's very useful feedback. It is the definition of constructive criticism. I presume all of us here like a good story as much as the next person, we are all FF players, by the way.

The game wouldn't be for us otherwise.

I would disagree with G'raha Tia, but Ryne and Gaia's storyline did leave a bit to be desired. Maybe it just wasn't for me though. If they were trying to capture the essence of FF 8 I feel they failed miserably. Some bosses and music doesn't do the trick by themselves. And their attempt to make them similar to Squall and Rinoa in any way also fell apart pretty fast, at least in my opinion. It just didn't have the same emotional impact. It was off to a great start, but then it began to fizzle out.

[SturmChurro]

I would disagree with G'raha Tia, but Ryne and Gaia's storyline did leave a bit to be desired. Maybe it just wasn't for me though. If they were trying to capture the essence of FF 8 I feel they failed miserably. Some bosses and music doesn't do the trick by themselves. And their attempt to make them similar to Squall and Rinoa in any way also fell apart pretty fast, at least in my opinion.

G'raha Tia (at your service) is objectively a bad character. I don't see how anyone could like him. They have been pushing that dude on us WAY too much since after ShB launch. His story arc should have ended completely already, but they CONTINUE to push him on us. Especially in the latest patch. God it was AWFUL! That isn't even to mention FANDANIEL - PLEASE don't get me started on that guy..

Ryne/Gaia plot is... just.. SO BAD. Yeah, I really don't know what they were going for here, but I can barely sit through it.. The story was WAY better before all the fan service trash, objectively. I like the story, but it's been going downhill fast. I'm honestly worried about 6.0 story, hopefully it will be good though.

The game is still for me (for now), but obviously this game isn't for many others (right?). I just wish SE could figure out a good compromise for everyone. And also stop giving us trash plot. G'raha Tia (at your service*) needs to be taken out back - Zenos should do the honors.

[Kamatsu]

Perhaps the number of players who stay for the story greatly outweighs the number of players who might stop because the story is too long? Perhaps the company has metrics that you cannot see beyond a wild guess based on gut feelings? Perhaps the core audience for the game enjoys going through each MSQ?

I touched on this in my earlier post regarding WoW's raiding #'s - WoW's internal metrics showed that less than 10% of their active player base ever touched raids, and even fewer rushed characters to endgame to raid.

So in a game that was focused on the raids, had such a small % of ppl pushing to endgame & ignoring story... vs a FF story-based MMO? Yeah I'd say their metrics likely show a tiny percent skip the whole story on the 1st character.

Also funny thing about WoW... I've noticed as WoW more and more focuses on Story and tries to force ppl into story (and becomes a worse and worse game)... we see more and more threads asking/demanding that SE butcher the MSQ so ppl can ignore the story and just get to 'endgame'.... just like what WoW raiders did prior to the past 2? expansions. Purely anecdotal commentary though.

I agree. SE may really just prefer to cater to a base rather than a potential larger audience, and continue to go down the safe formulaic heaven that is their patch cycle. Considering everything they do outside that formula the community seems to largely DISLIKE, it makes sense. Why not just cater to this base?

You know, funny thing is I've seen this exact same argument over in Guild Wars 2 prior to their 1st expansion. That time it was "Make the game harder! Make it more group focused! Listen to us and you'll expand your playerbase!". ANet listened... and then proceeded to have their worst 6 month loss (was around 65-70% loss iirc) in record as players abandoned the game.

Sure they got the small % of ppl who loved the group-focused harder content... but in the process lost a huge chunk of their established playerbase who had got into the game due to it's story, how casual it was, how they could solo, etc and not what HoT turned out to be.

Listening to a vocal minority didn't work out well for ANet. These ppl used all very similar arguments as I see from ppl in this thread pushing for MSQ to be butchered/shortened/made-unessential.

IMO it's a good case0study here - because the changes ANet were being asked to make were directly against what the game had been pushed as, and the changes SE is being asked to make goes directly against what this game has always been pushed as.

So SE could listen to the vocal minority asking for MSQ to be butchered/removed for them, and thus reach out to ppl who are only interested in endgame... but how many of their core / story-orientated players would they lose as a consequence? Would they suffer a huge 67% loss, or worse, as ANet did when they did this exact thing?
------------------------

You know, you likely would get way, way more support from everyone if instead of asking SE to spend dev time butchering the MSQ further and further each expansion... just for the small % of players who only want to grind dungeons/raids/trials... if you instead asked SE to allow new accounts 1 free story & class skip on their 1st character.

This would enable new players to skip to the current expansion on 1 class for free, play with their friends and shorten the time to endgame grind. If they want to skip more classes or characters through msq... they can then pay for it.

I'd say you'd get more support for this, a once off story & class skip for new accounts, than continually pushing for the central aspect of the game (FF story) to be butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

[Reyketi]

butchered for an extremely small % of MMO players.

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.

That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.

It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.

That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.

That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[Garnix]

SE themselves decided that the MSQ was a barrier-to-entry for new customers, and as a consequence shortened it.

That's probably not indicative of an extremely small percentage of players.

It cost them probably hundreds of thousands of dollars to modify the MSQ to its current state.

That is an investment they made, in an attempt to raise their profit margins.

That margin wouldn't move much if it were only an "extremely small percentage" of players.

But again, this was because basically everybody was saying that ARR was tedious. It was not even a divisive topic. They had the numbers showing at what point people stopped playing (2.1, or around Aurum Vale were two examples provided by the dev team).
Again, give the option for the new players to skip ARR for free, and give them a 'the story so far' cutscene, and all good. This way they can access level 50 content, and pretty much see what the game has to offer.
ARR is still the main issue IMO.

All the expansions have filler but I think it is ok to first make ARR free to skip before thinking about it.