MSQ Needs Further Condensing

[Theodric]

Well, in a lot of single player RPGs, this is true. However, in single player Final Fantasy, it isn't really. Stories and character interactions in Final Fantasy games have always been very linear and rarely ever presented any choice to the player...

In most single player Final Fantasy games, if a particular character annoyed me for whatever reason, I could usually shelve them outside of mandatory plot relevant events. I didn't use Quina in FFIX and I wasn't forced to outside of rare occasions. I didn't like Vaan in FFXII, so I ran with Basch, Ashe and Balthier when the game allowed me to do so.

In the end, the busywork of fetch quests has simply been replaced by the busywork of spending time with specific characters. It'd be fine if it was less biased, though I don't care for either Alisae or G'raha and recent patches have forced my character to interact with them when I do not wish to in ways that aren't even relevant to the overall plot. In fact, we're stuck playing babysitter at points where I'd much rather go digging for information.

[Reyketi]

In most single player Final Fantasy games, if a particular character annoyed me for whatever reason, I could usually shelve them outside of mandatory plot relevant events. I didn't use Quina in FFIX and I wasn't forced to outside of rare occasions. I didn't like Vaan in FFXII, so I ran with Basch, Ashe and Balthier when the game allowed me to do so.

In the end, the busywork of fetch quests has simply been replaced by the busywork of spending time with specific characters. It'd be fine if it was less biased, though I don't care for either Alisae or G'raha and recent patches have forced my character to interact with them when I do not wish to in ways that aren't even relevant to the overall plot. In fact, we're stuck playing babysitter at points where I'd much rather go digging for information.

I don't dislike all of the characters, but I must say, generally, I do not care about them, in any capacity.

Final Fantasy XIV could use a soft-reboot, with the addition of new characters, replacing old ones, or improving upon the ones currently presented in the MSQ, in my opinion.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[Garnix]

Final Fantasy XIV could use a soft-reboot, with the addition of new characters, replacing old ones, or improving upon the ones currently presented in the MSQ, in my opinion.

In FFXIV terms, that's simply called an expansion.

[Moomba33]

I'd personally prefer that they don't cut down the MSQ any more than they have already. We already lost some quests I liked in the previous trim (like the one where you save Miner Tataru from the Malboro) and I'd rather not lose any more.

Edit: I understand that not all new players will appreciate going through so much content to reach the current endgame. I'd be ok with SE giving free boosts with expack purchases for those who really don't care at all. But I also think it's ok if this game doesn't appeal to everyone. I like that it has a long story to enjoy.

[van_arn]

Sure. Let's do that, keeping in mind I told you to give examples.



Shape the presentation of the MSQ around this time with questing and cutscenes like still frames bridging the gap... where?

Do you lose the context of the Azim Steppe? Just say "and then Hien gathered an army."?

Do you just say "And then Alphy and the WoL were two good bois and helped all around Ishgard!"?

Or, hell, what about the whole Doma Vs. Gyr Albania issue we're having? Gyr already feels barebones as all get-out compared to Doma, so do you want to take even more screentime away from it?

What about the three fights with Zenos, do you cut one of them?

This is what I mean. You're not thinking about where to put these "gap bridgers" as you put it, and not only this, but with your proposed "time to cap" idea, then you're running into one more issue:

The story gets even more barebones as each expansion rolls around because now you have to retroactively think about what to skip in the previous expansion.

And sure, you can say



but that wouldn't change the fact "abridged MSQ" is an awful experience. I'd be more, far more, in favor of giving everyone a free skip then ever implementing something like this because it is patently obvious you did not, in any way, think through what this would actually look like.

Point to what you can voiceover without losing narrative impact. Tell the devs exactly what they can do to improve the game. Don't just throw an idea at the wall and expect them to figure it out for you.

Also, I hope you like dev time being taken away from the next expansion as they now go back and figure out exactly what's safe to skip and what isn't. I mean, it's easy right? Just do a voiceover with some stills, how hard can it be? All they need to do is recap the story. I'm sure /haurchefant hits just as hard when we get a hot cup of brew in the recap.

You realize the trailer for Heavensward says all a new player needs to get into the game at that point? All of ARR can be condensed into a little sip, a collapse, an escape, and standing at the threshold of frozen gates.

That’s all that’s needed for a new player to have a good time in heavenward and beyond.

Other things from arr are referenced elsewhere, but a full understanding of every reference isn’t necessary for a player to have a good time blasting dragons and overthrowing a theocracy.

Those that want to revisit ARR can use NG+.

[Barwara]

As someone who plays MMOS foremost for storytelling, and who dreads ever arriving "at the end", I don't think I would want the MSQ condensed. I've recently finished the MSQ of HW and I'm at the patch content before SB. I've been playing for about 3 months, and I feel like I'm going too fast, while trying my best to go slow in order to really enjoy the game. But the game (storywise) is so good it's hard for me to not be playing every single day. It's like a book I can't put down; I just have to know what happens next.

I see how ARR and post ARR can be perceived as grindy (personally I still enjoyed it) seeing as the expansions are shorter and much better story-wise, but I'm disappointed HW is already over, and that I ate through much of MSQ in a couple of days... and I feel like I will eat through the patch content quickly if I don't pace myself. So I agree with those that say that if you want to skip you might as well buy your way through if that's what you really want, but you should respect the game for what it is: story-driven! FFXIV is unique in that. It shouldn't try to be like other MMOS where you can max out without ever going through any story.

(About some MSQ quests being completely useless and fillers, I agree. Some of that can either be cut out and turned into sidequests, or just made more interesting. I won't even get started on how there's a lot of fetching and running back and forth, and I hope this improves as I move on in the game.. XD)

Another point, isn't disparity between levels and unlocked content present in every MMO game? Even if the MSQ was condescend, and it would be easier to access certain content, you will still find people with different schedules and availability who aren't able to play as often as others. They will fall behind in their levelling and gameplay. They will be behind their friends and they will have to catch up. I think such situations are unavoidable.

[MilkieTea]

Heyo, maybe it'd be best to hear from a new player, considering I'm noticing SO MANY people in here speaking for us. I'm not here for, nor do I claim to represent all new players (and neither should y'all, if I'm being honest; you don't). I love the story. I love the grindiness. My attention span is shot to hell (thanks to ADHD+Autism+ menthol i'll nest) so I blast through cutscenes IN THE MOMENT, but when I feel like I can better focus, I search for as many as I can on YouTube or I go through the Inn. Every little bit feels important to me, because it is MY journey. I don't want to feel like a spectator, I don't want the story taken away. I love Final Fantasy as a series, and this feels like a Final Fantasy game that I can play with others. There are people who are going through the same journey as I am, I've come across so many coincidentally doing the same exact questlines as me. I don't think it needs to be further condensed, because at this point it's just up to you how fast you play through it. Perhaps the questlines could be cleaned up, but the story itself is as fleshed out as it needs to be.

People move at different paces, and if someone wants to skip through everything to get to endgame because they don't want to play the "Final Fantasy" aspect of the game, and wish to play the "MMO" aspect of the game, that's perfectly fine and up to them! But there's a way to do that. It's in the cash shop. And if you'd like to do that for free, there's even a way to do that! (though it'd take about a week and a half to two weeks).

As both an aside and healthy reminder:
FFXIV isn't WOW. The point of the game isn't to get to the end as fast as possible because things may be time sensitive or if you mess some timing up youre screwed for weeks or months. The point of the game is the story and the ability is going to first and foremost be for players to focus on the story. I already feel pressured to skip through cutscenes in dungeons and trials because I know, in those 30-60 seconds, that I'm going to either be left behind or yelled at and nagged.

Also, can I just add that the tone of this thread has progressively gotten more and more hostile with every page? I've been reading along ever since page 8 and while initially there was some snark, as is normal for forums, it's gotten to the point where every other response is sarcastic, unproductive, and downright mean at some points. You guys aren't going to change opinions, some people like the story and others enjoy the endgame content, some people feel like the msq is the dullest thing in existence and some feel like it's the most amazing. There's no need for you guys to be sarcastic and hostile and overtly defensive about either position, because they're both valid opinions to be held. Remember that there's someone on the other side of the screen who is just as passionate about their opinion as you.

[Reyketi]

lso, can I just add that the tone of this thread has progressively gotten more and more hostile with every page?

I have had this debate in multiple locations, including other venues that are not this forum.

Those against condensing the MSQ have always been the most hostile, and snarky, no matter the OP's or other poster's degree of civility, and or cordialness.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

[MilkieTea]

I have had this debate in multiple locations, including other venues that are not this forum.

Those against condensing the MSQ have always been the most hostile, and snarky, no matter the OP's or other poster's degree of civility, and or cordialness.

Best Wishes

-Reyketi

Heyo, perhaps you misconstrued that. It's fine, it was a pretty vague statement, intentionally so: I never mentioned names nor sides. For good reason: It's up to you to evaluate how you've been responding, as well as up to everyone else. ^-^

[Diego2112]

No way by Hel's Holiest of Bells am I reading all 15 pages of this, so forgive me if it's already been said. Made an alt to play through the reworked MSQ. It takes just under 24 hours of gameplay to get through all of ARR plus the 7AE patchquests to get to the start of Heavensward. What more do you want them to cut? ALL of ARR and 7AE? Even Heavensward doesn't take too terribly long.

That said, no point really debating story vs gameplay and which is better. There's two camps, there will always be two camps, and neither side will see eye to eye with the other no matter how much talking, debating, arguing, screaming, shouting, yelling, and/or shanking is done. I myself am here for the story first, everything else second. If I could grind it up and inject it straight into my brain, I would. But hey, you lot do you lot.

Again though, 24 hours from the time you ride into Ul'dah until the time you ride out of [redacted] and into [redacted]. I think it's truncated enough.