How to fix Zenos one dimentional character

[Barachim]

I really want Zenos to get kind of a Vegeta arc. Minus the wife and kids, because I just can't ever see Zenos mellow out that much. XD I would love to have him as an eternal rival, someone who might even team up with us against a common threat, but only so he can fight us again, because he wants nobody else to get the kill.

[Rymi64]

I really want Zenos to get kind of a Vegeta arc. Minus the wife and kids, because I just can't ever see Zenos mellow out that much. XD I would love to have him as an eternal rival, someone who might even team up with us against a common threat, but only so he can fight us again, because he wants nobody else to get the kill.

My current head canon is that in 6.0 we will have our big fight and we are equally matched and both beat eachother enough to tire ourselves out and fandanny swoops in and takes both zodi and hydaelyn for himself and we team up with zenos in the end because no one gets to beat he WoL except him

[KageTokage]

I am curious as to exactly what they intend to do with him now that they're suggesting he's another reincarnated Ancient of import (Though as far as individuals outside of the Convocation go, Venat or Hythlodaeus are the only known possibilities at present).

He's definitely not the sort of person who would be influenced much by his memories of the past...though I do see him as someone who might opt to do something benevolent on our behalf after we've defeated him again.

[Jirah]

SPOILERS

for one we fought him like 3 times in stormblood, fought him again in 4.5 and again in 5.3 he blatantly should’ve died ages ago his father made a much better character and was iced and for no real reason (that I’m actually crossing fingers that he somehow survived and plots revenge) he’s a absolute bore and his motives are lackluster for a Main villain.

We went from Gaius the conquerer ft Lahabrea in ARR, to Ishgarde elite with the archbishop with such tangled beef with the dragons that it’s hard to explain in a summary to the dragons themselves with said beef for man, to a tortured wench and Garleon sympathizers in SB and Zenos boring ass himself, to the main unsundered ascians in SHB to back to Zenos?

It just all feels incredibly regressive yea Danny boi is a villain too but he’s worse Acians have this amazing allure to them and it’s impressive to make that uninteresting as they have but since he’s new and 5.5 still unclear I’ll give him a pass it’s Zenos who just stays far too long in the main villain chair with the blandest motives that don’t even make sense. Ran’jit was more interesting the most interesting thing about him is his Fake Echo that that he used to Body hop and to take control of Shinryu that he artificially gained. I don’t even hate him like Vaulthry it just baffles me with a game filled with interesting characters this is the one they’ll end the Zodiark Arc with?

[Veloran]

As far as "absolutely crazy and just wants a sick death" goes Danny at least comes off as far more entertaining than Zenos. Frankly his only good scenes were with WoL at the end of 4.0, and I'm not really sure what they can do with Zenos that isn't just having those exact same moments again. I want to think Ishikawa can do something interesting with him but it seems like the very core concept of his character is so fixed that even if he somehow got some really tragic backstory I don't think he would even care if it was brought up in the present day. I mean this is a guy who had a second chance at life and just decided "Yeah I'll do it all again but even bigger this time."

I really question why they even brought him back. If it was just for WoL to have a rival some new character could be invented that's a better fit, right? People say he's like the perfect foil in that he's kind of the opposite of WoL in every way, but surely an inverse-WoL would work better than an anti-WoL, right? Someone that's more like him in ways that aren't just "yeah he's super strong too". I mean given none of the remaining sundered Ascians have any established character any of them could be made to fit the bill. This is originally what Ardbert and the Warriors of Darkness were, but they were wrapped up (as antagonists anyway) fairly quickly.

I don't know. I like Zenos in some ways, but if the big resolution to the story is just WoL fighting him while he's mantling Zodiark and beating him just concludes the primary plot, that'd be pretty lame and one-dimensional. They'd need to have a frankly ludicrous execution to pull that off and justify it.

[Kesey]

Zenos has a few ticks that have lead me to this conclusion: Zenos has an ancient equivalent that journeyed with Azem.

1. Zenos has dreams of the final days, so this is evidence he has a least a fragment of an ancient's soul.

2. He has this weird way of calling us "his friend" pretty consistently. Now I know on the surface that's to show he values competition in combat and only sees those who can challenge him as equals. But its also set the stage for duplicitous meaning in the sense that "we were real friends" in a past life.

3. As a significant plot hole to the Ancient narrative revolves around what was "Azem" actually doing since they didn't join the Hydaelyn or Zodiark faction, but then appears in god mythos of cultures across the star, some of which has Azem with followers. This sets up that post-sundering, Azem wandered the star fixing the woes of the world with his friends/companions (resulting in "The 12"). I would assume we'll find that fragments of "The 12" have been reincarnated as the Scions and few other key main characters, which Zenos can now be one of them. (Sorry this one isn't great evidence, but is more conjecture filling in what we don't know with what we do know).

4. Since Fandaniel has been shown to have every intention of betrayal to Zenos; this comes from his rhetoric of "loyal" "faithful" and "in want of a new master" but then takes the body of person whose last name is "Brutus". These are all foreshadowing betrayal set ups. And when Fandaniel ultimately stabs Zenos in the back because Fandaniel got what he wanted, where does that leave Zenos?

5. To avoid the Stormblood conclusion, taking into account point 4 (above) and the high potental of losing to the WOL again (I mean we're the hero; we win in the end), Zenos would see no other recourse then to do what he did in Stormblood after we defeat Shinryu, which is take his own life. UNLESS, he is called to a higher calling informed by knowledge gained by points 1, 2 and 3 and joins us to save the star.

[Lauront]

As far as "absolutely crazy and just wants a sick death" goes Danny at least comes off as far more entertaining than Zenos. Frankly his only good scenes were with WoL at the end of 4.0, and I'm not really sure what they can do with Zenos that isn't just having those exact same moments again. I want to think Ishikawa can do something interesting with him but it seems like the very core concept of his character is so fixed that even if he somehow got some really tragic backstory I don't think he would even care if it was brought up in the present day. I mean this is a guy who had a second chance at life and just decided "Yeah I'll do it all again but even bigger this time."

I really question why they even brought him back. If it was just for WoL to have a rival some new character could be invented that's a better fit, right? People say he's like the perfect foil in that he's kind of the opposite of WoL in every way, but surely an inverse-WoL would work better than an anti-WoL, right? Someone that's more like him in ways that aren't just "yeah he's super strong too". I mean given none of the remaining sundered Ascians have any established character any of them could be made to fit the bill. This is originally what Ardbert and the Warriors of Darkness were, but they were wrapped up (as antagonists anyway) fairly quickly.

I don't know. I like Zenos in some ways, but if the big resolution to the story is just WoL fighting him while he's mantling Zodiark and beating him just concludes the primary plot, that'd be pretty lame and one-dimensional. They'd need to have a frankly ludicrous execution to pull that off and justify it.

They could just kill off Zenos now and nothing of value would be lost. He's at best a lever for Fandaniel, which could be written in other, alternative ways, if they so chose. Which isn't to say I think they'll have Fandaniel outlast him, but between the two, the latter is at least engaging. Zenos both lacks any depth and any charisma and together it makes scenes with him into a slog. I agree with you about inserting a backstory. It sometimes works, for some characters where there may already have been a basis for it, but in his case it will come across as forced and inauthentic. If they were going to recycle a character as a nemesis, they could've just as easily had Lahabrea do it and use the Eyes of Nidhogg as the vehicle for how he restored his full power and goes a little bananas (as opposed to just appearing that way) - that route was always available to them, technically. As things stand, Emet-Selch made for a better "old friend" enemy, as an actual champion of darkness. I see Zenos as little more than a caricature of a certain type of gamer and even so such "meta" things don't do much to amuse me by themselves.

Restoring Zenos was a mistake, as far as I'm concerned. I'm just hoping they find it in themselves to kill him off rather than dragging him out... there's multiple ways they can level up someone like Fandaniel to become a great threat in power terms, especially when we're supposed to believe Ran'jit was one. Maybe find his remaining shards, become unsundered and steal Zodiark's power for himself, or something.

[Delily]

The entire purpose of Zenos is his one-dimensionality.

Every other character we have fought has some motivating factor behind them that causes them to cross our path. The Griffin wanted to force the Alliance to get involved with the war for Ala Mihgo. The Ascians wanted to restore the sundered world. The Archbishop wanted to bring law and order to the world.

Zenos serves the same function as the Joker does in the Batman series, a foil. His backstory is irrelevant. He is what he is because of what others did to him. He has no motive or concern beyond fighting the WoL. He's not really evil or good, as he doesn't care about power, wealth, or status. (He is sadistic.) He is a slow-moving force of nature. You may not like his personality, but it's crucial to his character. In his mind, he is so powerful that nothing interests him; everything is a bore.

I think Fanadiel was a mistake. Another Ascian? Who cares? We've defeated every Ascian we've come across. His shtick is that he's like Thanos, an insane nihilist. He's going to do crazy things like summon towers and primals. Big deal. Zenos just cuts everything down.

I'm also reading people say Zenos is like us? In theory, everyone is like us, a sundered soul. They made that clear. Zenos was never awakened like we were by Hydaelyn/Zodiark. A big part of Stormblood's story was they Zenos's "Echo" is artificial and that the process that granted him the Resonance drove him insane. (Fordola has the Resonance as well, but not to the degree Zenos does and she received it later). This further drives home the point that he is our counter.

The WoL travels the world helping others because we want to. Our strength comes from others.
Zenos travels the world seeking combat, his strength is all internal.

The WoL is a "friend to all", an empathetic caring person. Zenos is utterly isolated.

The WoL received his/her Echo "naturally" from Zodiak/Hydaelyn, and it has grown with us as we have traveled. Arguably it has increased our compassion to others as we glimpse parts of their story that shows us their motivation. Zenos received his power artificially and was driven insane by it.

[Lauront]

The MC has defeated everything they've come across, including Zenos. So at this point he's as much of a "who cares". We've already defeated him, he already took his life. Against the unsundered Ascians (well mostly Elidibus and Hades, since Lahabrea wore himself out), and especially Hades, that victory was aided much by the Blessing of Light (the borrowed power of a primal), which he even makes clear during the fight. On top of that there was all that stored up Lightwarden aether. It took an awful lot to defeat him - more than it did Zenos's original fight, at a point where the MC's soul was more "rejoined" than when he faced Zenos. At this point it isn't so much Zenos's own power that is the focal point, but his willingness to skinride Zodiark... to up the ante. I'm sure the Blessing factored in with Zenos, and particularly Shinryu, but the point is he too has already been defeated once, hence the plan to draw on Zodiark's power for a more "epic" fight.

The reason they brought in Fandaniel is because Zenos is utterly boring. We keep having to be told in English 101 terms why he's such a brilliant character conceptually, but I'm afraid even so, I still find him disposable and uninteresting. There's plenty of ways they can augment Fandaniel's power, if they so chose. Even the Resonance is just a magic mcguffin in the end.

In a way, the fact that Zodiark is a Primal with a "heart" - or a host - makes him that much more disposable. It's not even a case of taking control over him, if such is even possible. Using his aether and becoming his heart would mean becoming Zodiark. If it's a matter of having a strong enough soul to do so, there's enough plot devices to enable Fandaniel - or anyone else - to do it. All that distinguishes Zenos - until Fandaniel came along - is his pure wanton destructiveness in pursuit of his goal.

When people say he's similar to "us", they mean he's a caricature of a certain type of tryhard gamer - it's not so much the in-universe stuff, which is fairly malleable and a case of "make it up as you go along".

I say all this as someone who liked Zenos in Stormblood, but now he's just over-stayed his welcome, and the sooner he goes, the sooner I'll regain my interest in the story, at least partially.

[Puremallace]

Zenos serves the same function as the Joker does in the Batman series, a foil.

This maybe true and I am ok with that if you find me one Heath Ledger to finally play him correctly out of 20+ prior iterations that noone really remembers. If they are going full one dimensional driving force narrative like goblin wanting the ring then they need drop the comic book villain stuff and have him start icing some friends.

Zenos needs to show up and take out Krile or something straight up Sephiroth style and right then and there make you realize his goal is to drive you crazy with rage to become like him. At that point you take the high road and take him out like Luke Skywalker.

Maybe have him become Zodiarks new heart.