Why is this ok?

[Basch1990]

So recently I ran WoD (World of Darkness for any new players) and we had a lot of new players in our Alliance. Group runs up to the first add phase and our DPS started dropping and as a SMN I moved farther to the side because I had 100 up left. The healers refused to res anybody and they only healed themselves and the tank so I stood there about 5 minutes (because our dps were dead and damage was low) with 100hp. I called them out on it and they ignored. So we got to the first boss and my alliance's tank insta pulled and we started. DPS were dying due to mechanics and I told the healers they needed to start healing. The TANK told me I seem to enjoy whining. So I pressed everybody and then started pulling early for the next add phase and 5-headed dragon. They told me to stop acting like a tank so I told them that I figured since the healers werent doing their jobs, I figured I would do the tank's job. The healers told me the I obviously dont raid. Like what kind of logic is that? All the dps are dead and they do nothing but dps thinking they can cover the missing dps? Ultimately I got kicked from the party cause I wiped them twice because they didn't listen.

The point of this is: Why tf is it ok for healers to act that way?

[Adeacia]

If they mentioned raiding then it seems like they have the idea that healers are required to heal as little as possible and dps as much as possible. At the same time using a GCD for something that isn't dps makes you a terrible healer based on what I read on these forums.

Sounds like they are only doing what people say they should do.

[Darkmoonrise]

Well it's not. (ok)

I suppose Adeacia is right about the explanation, but there is a slight difference between HL Raid and WoD. The real problem here is being stubborn and being blind to the context. Just let them live in their bubble, if you look at the whole community, most of the people are ok. You face such prince/sse on rare occasion only.

P.S. after 2 wipes, loot timer should have run out, I would have initiated a kick for one of them. And the pride of the other would have carry her/him away. On to of that, here's an advice from someone who doesn't care anymore : if someone's behaviour bothers you too much, say nothing and kick them asap. It's the safer option for you and the more frustrating option for them. If this strategy fails (group tagging, intentionally not looting to keep the timer running, or whatever), just eat the penalty, it's the better solution for your mental health.

[Frizze]

Yeah, but the people who do actual high level raiding also know that a dead dps is a 0 dps. If your not healing has killed half the group(and what high level boss doesnt have a roomwide unavoidable attack or two?), then the only way your DPS is going to make up for it is if they were basically afk anyway.

That said, i dont understand how a summoner could intentionally wipe the raid twice outside of chain shenanigans, and i wouldnt have stayed long enough to do that. Oh, and intentionally causing a wipe makes you basically as bad as they were. If i were in alliance B or C id have hated everyone in your group, but you most of all. I also dont run alliance roulette anymore because i am done with the CT runs. Stories like this(even worse when its in LotA) dont make me want to change my mind.

[Squaak]

You sound like you are quick to get upset and grief your party. Alliance raids are as good as any other content when it comes to practicing better gameplay.

"As a SMN I moved farther to the side because I had 100 hp left."

It is incredibly common for players to not consider the range of spells like succor/medica/helios when positioning themselves during an encounter. It is a nice gesture, but not a requirement, for healers to run around in search of party members on the brink of death because they are scattered to the four winds. It is a requirement, however, that you are within the radius of the healer's spells if you wish to be healed. Where you are standing is probably worth thinking about next time.

Also, is it not more likely that the new players died because they did not know what to look out for, while being out of range? Because hey, sitting on 100 hp for 5 minutes is doable, if I am to believe your story.

As for reviving players, no surprises there. Who would want to start the next encounter with weakness? The time spent releasing and teleporting to the group is quicker and restore your stats. This goes for deaths during groups of mobs between encounters and at the end of encounters.

[Basch1990]

You sound like you are quick to get upset and grief your party. Alliance raids are as good as any other content when it comes to practicing better gameplay.

"As a SMN I moved farther to the side because I had 100 hp left."

It is incredibly common for players to not consider the range of spells like succor/medica/helios when positioning themselves during an encounter. It is a nice gesture, but not a requirement, for healers to run around in search of party members on the brink of death because they are scattered to the four winds. It is a requirement, however, that you are within the radius of the healer's spells if you wish to be healed. Where you are standing is probably worth thinking about next time.

Also, is it not more likely that the new players died because they did not know what to look out for, while being out of range? Because hey, sitting on 100 hp for 5 minutes is doable, if I am to believe your story.

As for reviving players, no surprises there. Who would want to start the next encounter with weakness? The time spent releasing and teleporting to the group is quicker and restore your stats. This goes for deaths during groups of mobs between encounters and at the end of encounters.

See.i I stood in range for majority of the time waiting. When I got no heals I moved due to no up. And both healers did not even cast ANY healing spells accept for them and the tank. No Ape, nothing. Just a regen on tank and a couple single heal spells, thats it. And in a low lvl raid like WoD, weakness shouldnt matter. Its a million times better to have low dps instead of no DPS.

[Basch1990]

Yeah, but the people who do actual high level raiding also know that a dead dps is a 0 dps. If your not healing has killed half the group(and what high level boss doesnt have a roomwide unavoidable attack or two?), then the only way your DPS is going to make up for it is if they were basically afk anyway.

That said, i dont understand how a summoner could intentionally wipe the raid twice outside of chain shenanigans, and i wouldnt have stayed long enough to do that. Oh, and intentionally causing a wipe makes you basically as bad as they were. If i were in alliance B or C id have hated everyone in your group, but you most of all. I also dont run alliance roulette anymore because i am done with the CT runs. Stories like this(even worse when its in LotA) dont make me want to change my mind.

I early pulled cloud and when our DPS was dying I stood on meteor. Right before it hit, I stepped off. I'm guessing one of the new players didn't make it to a meteor as well cause we wiped. And then i early pulled right after making it so they couldn't kick me and then we wiped about a minute in for the same reason. I'll admit, in petty ad. But I'm not a person who stands up for that behavior. Especially when me asking the healers to heal cause the ENTIRE raid to start getting on me for whining too much. That gives me more of a reason to wipe. I wanted them to kick me cause I wasn't gonna just quit. And they refused to kick so I did what I had to till they did. Plain and simple.

[Basch1990]

Well it's not. (ok)

I suppose Adeacia is right about the explanation, but there is a slight difference between HL Raid and WoD. The real problem here is being stubborn and being blind to the context. Just let them live in their bubble, if you look at the whole community, most of the people are ok. You face such prince/sse on rare occasion only.

P.S. after 2 wipes, loot timer should have run out, I would have initiated a kick for one of them. And the pride of the other would have carry her/him away. On to of that, here's an advice from someone who doesn't care anymore : if someone's behaviour bothers you too much, say nothing and kick them asap. It's the safer option for you and the more frustrating option for them. If this strategy fails (group tagging, intentionally not looting to keep the timer running, or whatever), just eat the penalty, it's the better solution for your mental health.

i would have loved to kick. Problem was, that I was the only 1 who had a problem with lying dead on the ground. Especially since nobody wanted to wait for 2 healers and a tank.

[Liam_Harper]

At the same time using a GCD for something that isn't dps makes you a terrible healer based on what I read on these forums.

Sounds like they are only doing what people say they should do.

Spamming GCD's on unnecessary overheals makes you a bad healer. Dead and dying dps is a necessary situation. Any decent healer in a raid is going to get the dps up as soon as they can depending on the situation, even if it means a hardcast and kills their own damage.

It gets a bit tedious how lazy players twist and exaggerate good advice to sound bad, just to avoid putting a little effort into their own gameplay.

The point of this is: Why tf is it ok for healers to act that way?

Definitely not, but you intentionally caused 2 wipes, thus your own kick was fully justified.

[Vahlnir]

If they mentioned raiding then it seems like they have the idea that healers are required to heal as little as possible and dps as much as possible. At the same time using a GCD for something that isn't dps makes you a terrible healer based on what I read on these forums.

Sounds like they are only doing what people say they should do.

Well, yeah, but a dead dps does nothing for the party, let alone 4 of them. If a healer can multitask, which means dpsing AND healing, without letting anyone die due to negligence on their part then more power to them. Sadly, there's a certain portion of healers lately that can't do both. In those cases, I wish they would focus solely on healing instead of dpsing. There has always been healers like this, but I've noticed there has been a lot more recently (anecdotical evidence, not hard facts) focused on doing more damage than actually keeping people alive. That is not okay.