Adjustments to MCH design without reworking from scratch

[Jirah]

I don't know if I'm the only one bothered by Spread Shot... I think that's an animation looks a bit off for an AoE attack... maybe the Auto-crossbow should've been the "basic" AoE attack and something else for the Hypercharged version. Or at lest there's hoping for getting an improved ability replacing Spread Shot through levels 80-90.

Something else that can bless that leveling tier is another automaton for AoE. Maybe "Automaton Knight" being a robot that spins around with a Chainsaw on melee range. Chainsaw being another tool borrowed from Edgar from FF6.

We had bishop if they removed it just to reintroduce it as new but worse since its not in the field that often and has zero interplay with anything like queen, just to win "new skill points" is very annoying. More so since as of right now we have no way to generate battery as a aoe and even then i highl doubt that would fix MCh or make it better what so ever itll act as bioblaster but with battery gauge in the simplest of terms

[Raikai]

We had bishop if they removed it just to reintroduce it as new but worse since its not in the field that often and has zero interplay with anything like queen, just to win "new skill points" is very annoying. More so since as of right now we have no way to generate battery as a aoe and even then i highl doubt that would fix MCh or make it better what so ever itll act as bioblaster but with battery gauge in the simplest of terms

There are gonna be 10 new levels. New traits can introduce a way to generate battery on AoE moves. Plus, the logic behind an AoE battery spender is pretty much what they use for many jobs, with an AoE version of whatever spender they use.

I agree that the Automaton Queen being just a non interactible tool is not great... But I don't expect it to have that, because they can't make pets being properly responsive in this game... That's why SMN ended where they are right now, and possibly straying even further (if not completely) from a pet aspect in 6.0... I basically just treat the Queen as a "fancy ability visual". The only thing that I would make different is removing the animation delay in the beginning.

[Jirah]

There are gonna be 10 new levels. New traits can introduce a way to generate battery on AoE moves. Plus, the logic behind an AoE battery spender is pretty much what they use for many jobs, with an AoE version of whatever spender they use.

I agree that the Automaton Queen being just a non interactible tool is not great... But I don't expect it to have that, because they can't make pets being properly responsive in this game... That's why SMN ended where they are right now, and possibly straying even further (if not completely) from a pet aspect in 6.0... I basically just treat the Queen as a "fancy ability visual". The only thing that I would make different is removing the animation delay in the beginning.

Holding off on a aoe turret at Lv80+?? New skills should organically be added to compliment the jobs at the 50/60/70/80/90 marks (if even possible anymore) I don’t doubt they’ll do somthing like that “Enhanced Spread shot” increasing battery by 5 or somthing and also Aoes don’t have to be complex (it would be appreciated if they were) but also not every skill needs a Aoe version of everything.

Pet jobs are dead in the water sure but I do recall MCH Mains of eld used to complain about the lack of Turret control, remarkable they made it much much worse in 5.0 by removing overdrive and Hypercharge and restrict it to only 5 Gcds minimum 10 max if your really have a hard time forgetting about the turret button. The turret is so hands off it can be removed and MCH won’t loose anything substantial it needs more interplay like similar to Bahamut where you have a degree of control

[SweetPete]

I honestly really like the way mch plays now. I find it pretty fun. I know many of you have issues with it and that’s fine. Whatever they change I hope it just makes machinist even better in my eyes. I’d actually like some kind of support since it is a ranged physical. How about placing down a station for hp/mp regen? Or place down a station to increase damage for the entire party for a bit. I kinda don’t like it being the selfish dps like samurai and black mage. That’s my hope anyway. Probably won’t happen but a girl can dream.

[Jirah]

I honestly really like the way mch plays now. I find it pretty fun. I know many of you have issues with it and that’s fine. Whatever they change I hope it just makes machinist even better in my eyes. I’d actually like some kind of support since it is a ranged physical. How about placing down a station for hp/mp regen? Or place down a station to increase damage for the entire party for a bit. I kinda don’t like it being the selfish dps like samurai and black mage. That’s my hope anyway. Probably won’t happen but a girl can dream.

I can go with Selfish DPS or Support. Either route should suffice but since BRD and DNC have a tight grip on the niche idk how they would go about it and they removed MP regen skills like Mana Shift and Refresh for a reason so I doubt it’ll be brought back. But as a selfish dps I find it hilariously unfair that SAM and DRG have to worry about positionals and being close to the boss and BLM and SMN have their own demons with a tight phase rotations and lack of mobility, and there goes MCH with the easiest kit in the game and free reign to go in or out with a rotation that can be mastered at 50. Somthing like this rubs me the wrong way if they continue to buff such a job

[Shyle]

I just returned after a long break, I always liked the idea of the Machinist when it first came out, but wasn't a fan of the RNG based gameplay on it's initial launch. Now I'm playing it again and enjoy the gameplay/aesthetics of the class, though I do have to agree that the base combo (1-2-3) needs a little expanding with separate finishers (as mentioned before).

Maybe instead of spreadshot/crossbow for aoe, the machinist (I don't know the lore/class prior to ffxiv, so forgive my ignorance on the class history) uses grenades (or something to that effect) for AOE, like a basic grenade (1) that does burst phys. aoe dmg, links into a firebomb that does fire aoe dot dmg (maybe low to med. potency but also places a +% dmg taken debuff on the target(s)), and use flamethrower as the heat gauge aoe burn.
Another MMO with a similar class (in style) is in Swtor, the Smuggler uses a hand held blaster, and grenades and it's a decently satisfying gameplay loop. I believe one cool gimmick the class had was throwing a sticky grenade that could be detonated by a follow up shot from the blaster. Could be interesting to have something along those lines somehow.

But I also agree that the role of the class should step away from any form of "support" role, bard and dancer have those pretty locked up, boost the dmg on MCH a lil bit to maybe compete a bit better vs the higher tiers.

[Rymi64]

I just returned after a long break, I always liked the idea of the Machinist when it first came out, but wasn't a fan of the RNG based gameplay on it's initial launch. Now I'm playing it again and enjoy the gameplay/aesthetics of the class, though I do have to agree that the base combo (1-2-3) needs a little expanding with separate finishers (as mentioned before).

Maybe instead of spreadshot/crossbow for aoe, the machinist (I don't know the lore/class prior to ffxiv, so forgive my ignorance on the class history) uses grenades (or something to that effect) for AOE, like a basic grenade (1) that does burst phys. aoe dmg, links into a firebomb that does fire aoe dot dmg (maybe low to med. potency but also places a +% dmg taken debuff on the target(s)), and use flamethrower as the heat gauge aoe burn.
Another MMO with a similar class (in style) is in Swtor, the Smuggler uses a hand held blaster, and grenades and it's a decently satisfying gameplay loop. I believe one cool gimmick the class had was throwing a sticky grenade that could be detonated by a follow up shot from the blaster. Could be interesting to have something along those lines somehow.

But I also agree that the role of the class should step away from any form of "support" role, bard and dancer have those pretty locked up, boost the dmg on MCH a lil bit to maybe compete a bit better vs the higher tiers.

Funny thing about the granade thing.....it had an aoe skill that was a granade (Grando shot) but they got rid of it and kept spread shot. Same case with bards Wide volley. I guess they wanted to get rid of the circle aoes for them for some reason even though they were better and had cooler animations -.-. (Also the sticky granade thing is kinda just wild fire in a sense)

Mch only has one support role skill (tactician) and i dont count the role actions since majority of them help in solo play more than party play, so it already isn't really much of a support (not like anyone uses the damn damage reduction abilities anyways). So they could still up the damage of the job while keeping the one support ability they have since they are supposed to be the "selfish phy range" job. It always confuses me when people say they should step away from it when it barely has any.

[Payotz]

I can go with Selfish DPS or Support. Either route should suffice but since BRD and DNC have a tight grip on the niche idk how they would go about it and they removed MP regen skills like Mana Shift and Refresh for a reason so I doubt it’ll be brought back.

I would honestly want MCH to go back to their support DPS route. Hell, I want phys ranged to go back to their "Utility DPS" identity. Palisade, Refresh, Arm Graze, Leg Graze, Head Graze, Old Hypercharge/Foe's Requiem, Rend Mind, and Dismantle is a lot better reason to bring a physical ranged than a boring "1% Party Bonus DPS buff" that literally adds NO gameplay.

If they want to keep MCH as a "selfish DPS", they need to implement it as a Support-Oriented, "Selfish" Physical Ranged job with more utility on top of it. Which means, a job that has more personal DPS than its fellow phys ranged, and the identity of "utility based" like all phys ranged. Maybe more mitigation (Rend Mind/ Dismantle/ Palisade), maybe a resource refresh (Refresh or maybe a skill that refreshes job timers every 180 seconds), or maybe even have Peloton be active during combat. Utility doesn't have to mean "Trick Attack relabeled" either, it can even be a skill that helps keep uptime during mechanics, mitigate during heavy damage phases, or even CC that can affect the boss, like Slow and Blind.

Just something that isn't a +1% Party bonus and is also engaging would be nice.

[Ultimatecalibur]

Utility doesn't have to mean "Trick Attack relabeled" either, it can even be a skill that helps keep uptime during mechanics, mitigate during heavy damage phases, or even CC that can affect the boss, like Slow and Blind.

There are a couple ways to make "selfish" abilities that still add dps utility. For example, Wildfire could be upgraded so that not just your own weaponskills increase its potency but party member weaponskills, spells and pet attacks do so as well.

[Payotz]

There are a couple ways to make "selfish" abilities that still add dps utility. For example, Wildfire could be upgraded so that not just your own weaponskills increase its potency but party member weaponskills, spells and pet attacks do so as well.

I don't agree to changing that Wildfire in that way, it would probably make it a lot more inconsistent without adding more gameplay.

If they're gonna make MCH a phys ranged that's "selfish", I don't really see dps utility coming back to it.
I would rather have different kinds of utility added to it that doesn't specifically affect damage directly, like CCs, mitigation and resource refresh (or anything else really).