Adjustments to MCH design without reworking from scratch

[Jirah]

I'm glad it turned into some sort of meaningful discussion, if I would start this topic like year ago I would be lynched for saying that MCH is not perfection.

I want MCH to be better than this, but for the love of Halone at least rework these damn 1-2-3 combo animations. Dragoon, job designed around jumping does less jumps and backflips than "gunner".

Id argue MCH is the worst DPS job in the game, hows that for unpopular opinion that I know dam well that im mostly in the minority for. Yea MNK isnt so far behind but its getting more focus by the devs while they ignore this seemingly successfully job due to shallow statistics like popularity when 4.0 MCH ,thanks to the community had such a rancid reputation, wasnt so popular.

The Job is a people pleaser job, meaning you essentially have access to everything which has some issues like the 1-2-3 once flashy for a certain time frame is now permanent making them feel boorish. You have all 3 charges from the get go and without any structure like SMN Ruin IV, or BRD bloodletter that have a optimal way to go about it without mindlessly spamming buttons like a bored toddler, thats kinda what you do here ...twice and with 2 other GCD free to use. Im digressing alot but a job with such few skills with so much fat is worrisome and they couldve just fixed SB MCH rather than delete 40% of its kit for spam buttons. The job needs some serious redesigning and due to the Dogs breakfast we have now their is zero way to go about it without putting some manor of restriction which will piss off MCH mains used to having so much. Example would be like if SMN started out with 4 Ruin stacks and the following patch made it to its current incarnation

[Cetek14]

Id argue MCH is the worst DPS job in the game, hows that for unpopular opinion that I know dam well that im mostly in the minority for. Yea MNK isnt so far behind but its getting more focus by the devs while they ignore this seemingly successfully job due to shallow statistics like popularity when 4.0 MCH ,thanks to the community had such a rancid reputation, wasnt so popular.

The Job is a people pleaser job, meaning you essentially have access to everything which has some issues like the 1-2-3 once flashy for a certain time frame is now permanent making them feel boorish. You have all 3 charges from the get go and without any structure like SMN Ruin IV, or BRD bloodletter that have a optimal way to go about it without mindlessly spamming buttons like a bored toddler, thats kinda what you do here ...twice and with 2 other GCD free to use. Im digressing alot but a job with such few skills with so much fat is worrisome and they couldve just fixed SB MCH rather than delete 40% of its kit for spam buttons. The job needs some serious redesigning and due to the Dogs breakfast we have now their is zero way to go about it without putting some manor of restriction which will piss off MCH mains used to having so much. Example would be like if SMN started out with 4 Ruin stacks and the following patch made it to its current incarnation

Yeah, I'm also not satisfied with how MCH currently works. I swear that "rework" was made 5 minutes before job actions trailer. Just cut off 50% of the kit, slap a bunch of new multitool actions, done.
MCH can be so much better than it currently is. But we got to start something. So I'm personally suggesting reworking main combo and doing something with heated animations, because they are really annoying. I consider the job unironically unplayable because of them, they are so silly, completely ruining aesthetics.

[Raikai]

Yeah, I'm also not satisfied with how MCH currently works. I swear that "rework" was made 5 minutes before job actions trailer. Just cut off 50% of the kit, slap a bunch of new multitool actions, done.
MCH can be so much better than it currently is. But we got to start something. So I'm personally suggesting reworking main combo and doing something with heated animations, because they are really annoying. I consider the job unironically unplayable because of them, they are so silly, completely ruining aesthetics.

I don't know if I'm the only one bothered by Spread Shot... I think that's an animation looks a bit off for an AoE attack... maybe the Auto-crossbow should've been the "basic" AoE attack and something else for the Hypercharged version. Or at lest there's hoping for getting an improved ability replacing Spread Shot through levels 80-90.

Something else that can bless that leveling tier is another automaton for AoE. Maybe "Automaton Knight" being a robot that spins around with a Chainsaw on melee range. Chainsaw being another tool borrowed from Edgar from FF6.

[Jirah]

I don't know if I'm the only one bothered by Spread Shot... I think that's an animation looks a bit off for an AoE attack... maybe the Auto-crossbow should've been the "basic" AoE attack and something else for the Hypercharged version. Or at lest there's hoping for getting an improved ability replacing Spread Shot through levels 80-90.

Something else that can bless that leveling tier is another automaton for AoE. Maybe "Automaton Knight" being a robot that spins around with a Chainsaw on melee range. Chainsaw being another tool borrowed from Edgar from FF6.

We had bishop if they removed it just to reintroduce it as new but worse since its not in the field that often and has zero interplay with anything like queen, just to win "new skill points" is very annoying. More so since as of right now we have no way to generate battery as a aoe and even then i highl doubt that would fix MCh or make it better what so ever itll act as bioblaster but with battery gauge in the simplest of terms

[Raikai]

We had bishop if they removed it just to reintroduce it as new but worse since its not in the field that often and has zero interplay with anything like queen, just to win "new skill points" is very annoying. More so since as of right now we have no way to generate battery as a aoe and even then i highl doubt that would fix MCh or make it better what so ever itll act as bioblaster but with battery gauge in the simplest of terms

There are gonna be 10 new levels. New traits can introduce a way to generate battery on AoE moves. Plus, the logic behind an AoE battery spender is pretty much what they use for many jobs, with an AoE version of whatever spender they use.

I agree that the Automaton Queen being just a non interactible tool is not great... But I don't expect it to have that, because they can't make pets being properly responsive in this game... That's why SMN ended where they are right now, and possibly straying even further (if not completely) from a pet aspect in 6.0... I basically just treat the Queen as a "fancy ability visual". The only thing that I would make different is removing the animation delay in the beginning.

[Jirah]

Yeah, I'm also not satisfied with how MCH currently works. I swear that "rework" was made 5 minutes before job actions trailer. Just cut off 50% of the kit, slap a bunch of new multitool actions, done.
MCH can be so much better than it currently is. But we got to start something. So I'm personally suggesting reworking main combo and doing something with heated animations, because they are really annoying. I consider the job unironically unplayable because of them, they are so silly, completely ruining aesthetics.

I have alot to say about MCH most not being positive but the 1-2-3 is annoying purely due to how frequent we use it if we arent doing that we are either pressing our Ogcd or doing the 8 sec heat phase other than that 1-2-3. 4.0 had similar issues but with ammo it diversified the experience and with Hot shot and Cooldown and turret reset it made things more treacherous. The aesthetic might be over the top but the execution is bland aswell ranged jobs have no reason to have such a boring loop much less have it more mundane than most melees and even a few tanks

[garret_hawke]

I feel like both mch and drk got "reworked" in like 5 min

[CKNovel]

I feel like both mch and drk got "reworked" in like 5 min

Here's what different gameplay wise from HW/SB iterations:
-Removed MP/TP refresh, removed Dismantle and replaced with new Tactician.
-Hypercharge now replaced with rapidfire and rapidfire is reworked into spamming one GCD and alterning between 2 oGCD.
-Heatblast reworked into the GCD spam. GR/Ricochet now have charges, yay.
-Both gauges reworked into a dumb "fill and spend". Barrel Stabilizer was changed to fit in.
-Removed EVERYTHING about the turret, just keep overload.
-Removed Ammos and every skills/mechanics tied to it. (Reload and Quick Reload)
-Add Drill and reworked Hot shot into Air Anchor. Bio Blaster and Air Anchor for AoE.

They removed so much to be replaced with an AoE variant. Of course it's much better than the SB iteration but it's also... Just plain and boring. I remember that there was 3 thing asked, Less emphasis on Wildfire, a "Press to overheat button" and correcting the ping issue. 2/3 corrected and Hypercharge was dumbed down while remaining forbidden to Australian players.
Drill was a good idea, in my opinion. It's impactful, rewarding and establish a set of rules that makes the new core of MCH. "Can I use Hypercharge, will drill/AA be available, how far is Wildfire", they should expand on that.

On single target, there is literally no differences between lv66 and 80, it's just visuals, potency buff and QoL. It's the same for a lot of jobs between 70-80, but it's baffling for MCH. Reaching lv70 it doesn't feel like a great addition.
Flamethrower still exists in this form for reasons, I admit it's nice to press it and being able to grab a cup of coffee but this skill needs a rework, hopefully not a trait we'll get lv82 just to fill a slot skill. Like how lv74 adds a 3rd charge on GR/Ricochet, it should have been at 3 charges from the beginning. 2 charges creates a problem, 3 charges is the solution.

[Jirah]

Drill was a good idea, in my opinion. It's impactful, rewarding and establish a set of rules that makes the new core of MCH. "Can I use Hypercharge, will drill/AA be available, how far is Wildfire", they should expand on that.

Drill was not a good idea let me ask what would MCH gain or lose if drill was removed?..Play it without it and it just seems...the same sure reassemble needs more retrain but overall not that impactful for a skill that does nothing , its not even a Ogcd like tornado kick just a bland skill in that context. This example is hardly a good one since its heat is so restrictive and these arent interludes theyre just attacks and due to having no structure theres not struggle to allign anything since its old core Wildfire is reduced to such shambles being longer in CD and unchanging. 4.0 all u did was to set of explosive wildfire in 5.0 its just somthing that feels tacked on in a job that is notorious for this . MCH in 5.0 is certainly more popular it wouldnt call it a improvement over 4.0 due to removing so much and giving it so little with no real impact.

[CKNovel]

Drill was not a good idea let me ask what would MCH gain or lose if drill was removed?

Drill is the core of Machinist. It's the chocolate chip on cookies, the ball in football, the "Musk" in "Elon Musk".

As you said, Drill exists to stop your rotation. It's a GCD, your highest damaging one, meaning you have to be careful with Hypercharge use.

If Drill was removed, the MCH would gain more flexibility on heat management. Heat is at 50? Spend it unless wildfire will happen soon.
That's it, MCH is already very flexible and more flexibility would just be bland.

If Drill was removed, what MCH would loose? Being punished for mismanaging your heat.
Drill puts a stop to the flexbility, it's exactly where you can't afford to be flexible. And it comes really well hand in hand with Air Anchor. You want to maintain Drill and Air Anchor at least 1 GCD away so you don't lose a combo if you followup Drill, Air Anchor and Hypercharge (In any order). I really like this relationship and set of rules, but it all comes to Drill and Air Anchor. Hypercharge itself is boring but that's not the question.
It's really simple, Drill is the gear that makes the rotation a minimum interesting and worth improving. It's your highest DPS, you want it as much as possible and should not miss a single one, or delay a single one. Without it, MCH gameplay would simply be "Fill heat gauge, hypercharge" without any thinking until you reach Wildfire or Air Anchor.

Wether the player likes it or not depends on opinion.
Some Driver prefer to manually change gear in their cars, other prefer automatic transmission.