Adjustments to MCH design without reworking from scratch

[Gallus]

Tbh, I don't care much what they do to MCH, my only request is that they entirely remove the ping nonsense issues from Hypercharge. It's not acceptable by any means. It doesn't matter whether they make the rotation a lot more complicated, I would certainly take that over banging my head onto a wall weaving stuff in 1.5 Heat Blasts. I absolutely gave up on this job long ago precisely because of this.

[Styrmwyda]

I think Autoturret should be like the SMN/SCH summons, being permanent, and have two versions: Rook for single target, Bishop for AOE. Automaton Queen would be like Bahamut.

(UPDATED)

Tbh, I don't care much what they do to MCH, my only request is that they entirely remove the ping nonsense issues from Hypercharge. It's not acceptable by any means. It doesn't matter whether they make the rotation a lot more complicated, I would certainly take that over banging my head onto a wall weaving stuff in 1.5 Heat Blasts. I absolutely gave up on this job long ago precisely because of this.

I think a good idea is to have it instead be charge like thing, where activating Hypercharge will consume 50 Heat Gauge and give you, lets say, 5 charges to use on Heat Blast and/ or Auto Crossbow.

[Llynethil]

I honestly like MCH how it is right now.

Only things I dislike is flamethrower being cancelled by just turning slightly already and it not doing bonus damage based on heat (imagine if you had high heat the flames turn blue or something), and Bio blaster being on the same cd as drill for some reason.

My real dream for MCH would be some sort of 100 heat move that summons a copy of your main hand weapon in your other hand and you go full Devil may cry ebony and ivory on enemies, my sam and drg get really awesome flashy big cd moves, why can't mch get one?!

[Jirah]

I honestly like MCH how it is right now.

Only things I dislike is flamethrower being cancelled by just turning slightly already and it not doing bonus damage based on heat (imagine if you had high heat the flames turn blue or something), and Bio blaster being on the same cd as drill for some reason.

My real dream for MCH would be some sort of 100 heat move that summons a copy of your main hand weapon in your other hand and you go full Devil may cry ebony and ivory on enemies, my sam and drg get really awesome flashy big cd moves, why can't mch get one?!

these are some light gripes..Drill and Bioblaster had to be tied or else MCH would rely on pressing too many buttons with no interplay with eachother and no structure...i mean thats what it is now but we dont need bioblaster and frankly we dont need Drill either tbh. adjust Air anchor CD and potency and it would work better

[Jirah]

The DUM way to make MCH more streamlined and even more accessible is doing this:

=Remove 1/2 OGCD=
We dont need 2 of these fashioned to be 6 as it just pads down the job have ricochet and Gauss be linked like Bio and Drill.. speaking of

=Remove bio and drill=
these are very lateral skills that offer nothing to the gameplay but to slow ur rotation, perhaps its best to just off them and have AA be the definitive reassemble patsy. Drill may possible exist as a ogcd but MCH has enough of those. Readjust potency and Reassemble to closely match AA...but if AA and reassemble are so closely matched why bother having reassemble? perhaps more can be done but i dont wanna trim MCH this far

=Flamethrower gives heat=
5 per tick equates to 55 heat it wont be a game changer but itll no longer be a off handed skill, just do it i dont wanna lose this skill

=Remove/adjust Spread/Auto=
spamming spread just to spam a slighlty faster version of spread is why MCH aoe game is the weakest. Either have a trait that upgrades it or remove it as it doesnt really add vigor to aoeing or just overhaul MCH aoe kit and do away with false speed heat. add ricochet regen in there too to match Gauss regen

With all these horrible decisions MCH will still strikingly play the same as it did in SHB to either make room to add better more layered mechanics or ya know...be the definitive MCH all along and just add a Queen Aoe and call it a day. i did this as a joke but i never noticed how heavily padded MCH is and is at the same time the job with the least going on

Scares me to ask but is this really the best MCH can do? a ogcd cluster fuck with offhanded mechanics

[Payotz]

Disclaimer: I really don't like ShB MCH. I would like the devs to revert it back to SB MCH and go from there but that's probably not gonna happen.
Also it's 1am here so I may sound like I'm high.
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=Remove 1/2 OGCD=
We dont need 2 of these fashioned to be 6 as it just pads down the job have ricochet and Gauss be linked like Bio and Drill.. speaking of

Nah. Rapid Fire is pretty much the only thing that separates MCH from other ranged physicals. I'd rather have them keep the 1.5 GCD + OGCD spam gameplay despite it actually exaggerating the ping issues.
I'd like to believe that Square has enough resources to actually establish datacenters around the region rather than have them all be stuck in one place. I don't want job design to be sacrificed just because they're trying to save money.

But if they really can't do it, I'd rather have them implement either a 5 charge Hypercharge, or implement a "soft cap/hard cap" where the charges stop auto auto generating when it hits 3, but Heatblast can push it over to 5 charges. Once the charges fall below 3, then it can start regenerating again. If the charges fall below 3 and the timer is at half, then the cooldown starts counting down from half of the timer.

Honestly though. I'd rather have them give back procs and old Rapidfire back rather than spam Heat Blast, but that's just me. (Revert MCH cough)

=Remove bio and drill=
these are very lateral skills that offer nothing to the gameplay but to slow ur rotation, perhaps its best to just off them and have AA be the definitive reassemble patsy. Drill may possible exist as a ogcd but MCH has enough of those. Readjust potency and Reassemble to closely match AA...but if AA and reassemble are so closely matched why bother having reassemble? perhaps more can be done but i dont wanna trim MCH this far

I respectfully disagree. Drill/Bio are tools for multi target fights like TEA, and for fights with adds like E4S, E8S and TEA. Drill's existence solves a lot of "problems" the job had; It gives the job a low commitment burst option that's not Wildfire for mechanics such as TEA Dolls, E4S Gaols, E8S adds(You don't have to hope to crit or waste a Wildfire to kill adds anymore), It diversifies damage and doesn't make it so that the job relies on ONLY Wildfire for damage (which a lot of people complained, I personally liked it), and it adds more "Machinist" elements to the job fantasy and makes it lean more towards MCH rather than Gunner.

Drill/Bio is a simple, non-gimmicky button that adds a lot of benefits to the job and raid design of the game as a whole.

=Flamethrower gives heat=

I agree with this one. If anything, FT should also have more synergy with Bioblaster.
Have FT put the old PvP DoT stacks on enemies affected by BioBlaster DoT.
It also gives a job fantasy of fighting them with chemical weapons and setting them on fire.

=Remove/adjust Spread/Auto=
spamming spread just to spam a slighlty faster version of spread is why MCH aoe game is the weakest. Either have a trait that upgrades it or remove it as it doesnt really add vigor to aoeing or just overhaul MCH aoe kit and do away with false speed heat. add ricochet regen in there too to match Gauss regen

I respectfully disagree. Again, Rapid Fire GCDs is part of MCH's job identity, so really the only problem that Auto Crossbow has is that it doesn't regenerate ricochet stacks.
It both serves as an AoE burst window and a good buffer between FlameThrower/Bio going off cooldown and Spread Shot spam.
It also adds to the job fantasy of a MCH rather than a gunner, just like Drill.

Let me add a couple of my own to the mix:

Make Queen Ranged or revert Queen back to Bishop/Rook Autoturrets:

I like the queen as a concept, but boy is it bad in execution. It has a lot of issues due to it being melee and it relying on Pet AI, including but not limited to:

It can't switch targets to what the user is currently attacking (Shoutout to E6S and TEA dolls BTW)
It gets stuck and bugs out in mechanics such as Uplift in E4S, and Teleports in E7S (Why do pets teleport tho?????)
Due to it being melee, it sometimes ghosts their auto attacks when the add moves too fast, making it completely unreliable.

It's a cool mechanic, but it's so obviously hampered down by the same issues SMN has that I believe that Rook is the better option, even though it's the lamer one.

Wildfire isn't satisfying

IMO, there's one major reason why Wildfire isn't that satisfying anymore and that's because there's really no other way to make use of a Wildfire other than press HeatBlast 5 times.One of the main reasons why I personally feel skillful whenever I execute Midfires and Openers is simply because I Press different GCDs and OGCDs in order to make use of a Wildfire , instead of 5 Heatblasts in a row. That's honestly pretty much it. To quote my favourite video, "Weaving four GCDs in a row makes you feel very skillful."

Case in point: NIN Trick Attack windows vs a current MCH wildfire window. NIN and MCH pretty much has the same general idea for a burst window. Pop a debuff on the boss, then do as much potency as you can before that debuff runs out. The only difference is that NIN does it by not spamming Bhava 5 times while spamming Jugulate and Mug but rather actually making use of their full kit, and thus playing NIN does make you feel very skillful (and yes there's skill expression in there).

I honestly don't know what the perfect solution to this problem is:

* Reverting MCH back to SB MCH is what I honestly prefer, but that's not what a lot of people want.

* Reverting Wildfire back into a "+25% damage in debuff duration" will basically force MCH to drop Drill and Anchor inside the Wildfire window, instantly deleting the alternate burst option the job has.

* We can probably rework MCH in that the Overheat and Rapidfire is a thing again, but only activated with Hypercharge. Activating Hypercharge will turn the GCD recast time of specific GCD actions to 1.5 seconds, and turn specific GCDs and OGCDs to their "Heated" Forms. Only Heated attacks counts for Wildfire damage, but this will make the ping a whole lot worse.

No Job/Role Identity

I've honestly said my piece in this thread and many others, but basically just add more utility back to the job/role. Make them do more mechanics or bait more mechanics.
To avoid being redundant, I'll just link this here

[Jirah]

snip

tbh that was a joke rework than anything and i dont stand by it but the devs might have other plans, i only made it to make fun of the trend to dum things down personal opinions withstanding

[Jirah]

\SNip

ok alot to take in here
Rico/Gauss isnt "rapid fire" rapid fire was removed so we can spam heat blast 5 bloody times instead its padding plain and simple 6 ogcds worth of padding no other job has because they have basic structure my rework thing was a gag but wouldnt mind loosing one and have the CD reduced if we MUST have it on. But due to having full stacks from the get go and only playing a role in MCH most restrictive phase with HB the best way to utilize them is to Spam! not speed

You say they need rapid fire but you want them to "Bunshin" heat blast? this would make the job even more mindless and unfun the only threat how ever small it is, is keeping up ur ogcd with ur one button wonder eliminating it for safer ping friendly Stacks would eliminate the only rapid fire thing MCH has.

ignoring the drill/bio argument as it could be fare more useful instead of being fodder, Ricochet is also a aoe, so is auto cross and flamethrower. St/aoe choices should belong to Gauss and rico and they arent gimmicky but they are in the same lane as RDM fleche or MNK tornado kick except RDM has alot more going on and doesnt hype it up as the one thing that makes the job fun and Tornado kick is a ogcd so it can flow evenly with its fists. remove drill to reassign AA to its role and the job is as samey as ever and wont change that drastically and can still have the link to bio if its so vital to 3 fights

MCH aoe is a incredibly small improvement to SB that being the case DNC and BRD has much better Aoe tools. DNC ST and Aoe rotations are the exact same which makes the job a bit boorish but makes the aoeing more layered, BRD having its own issues is pure madness in a good way with ballad and apex aswell as stuff like Shadowbite which encourages u to dot then blast with apex and rain or speed with paeon just needs to iron out a few of its loose screws, MCH is so far behind both of them that its remedial Auto being the same as Heat is a given but since FT doesnt generate heat and rico stacks dont generate and ur Bishop turret was removed so no aoes, and Bio being just as fragmented but more frequant. MCH more often than not will just have u spam spread like its SB again u need to do this 10 times before auto is active which lasts only 5 gcds. compared to literally every other dps in the game thats incredibly weak stuff

[Payotz]

ok alot to take in here
Rico/Gauss isnt "rapid fire" rapid fire was removed so we can spam heat blast 5 bloody times instead its padding plain and simple 6 ogcds worth of padding no other job has because they have basic structure my rework thing was a gag but wouldnt mind loosing one and have the CD reduced if we MUST have it on. But due to having full stacks from the get go and only playing a role in MCH most restrictive phase with HB the best way to utilize them is to Spam! not speed

I'm talking about the feel here. It's spammy, but it's Fast . A 1.5 GCD recast time and weaving an OGCD between that is probably the fastest burst window a game can actually offer.
It's not interesting for sure, but I addressed that in another spot in my post.

You say they need rapid fire but you want them to "Bunshin" heat blast? this would make the job even more mindless and unfun the only threat how ever small it is, is keeping up ur ogcd with ur one button wonder eliminating it for safer ping friendly Stacks would eliminate the only rapid fire thing MCH has.

It will not change anything, and I really only put that in there as a last resort fix to ping issues.
Heatblast will still have the same 1.5 GCD, and spamming Rico/Gauss Round between Heatblasts is still dps optimal due to how soft capping works.
The only thing that this will change is that it won't fuck over people if they clip their Heatblast due to animation lock (yes, the animation lock actually depends on latency), making it so that players won't be punished by something they can't control (ping).

I would still prefer actually putting servers in other regions to alleviate ping issues rather than changing jobs for it, but that's just me.

ignoring the drill/bio argument as it could be fare more useful instead of being fodder, Ricochet is also a aoe, so is auto cross and flamethrower. St/aoe choices should belong to Gauss and rico and they arent gimmicky but they are in the same lane as RDM fleche or MNK tornado kick except RDM has alot more going on and doesnt hype it up as the one thing that makes the job fun and Tornado kick is a ogcd so it can flow evenly with its fists. remove drill to reassign AA to its role and the job is as samey as ever and wont change that drastically and can still have the link to bio if its so vital to 3 fights

I honestly have a hard time understanding your point here.

Rico and GR, in its current state, exists to preserve the "Rapid Fire" identity of MCH. I wouldn't wanna remove them just because. Sure MCH doesn't have anything right now, but that doesn't mean we should remove things from it. That won't solve anything. In fact, I would argue that Rico and GR has a lot more nuance to it than Fleche and Contre Sixte, due to the interaction between those two and Heat Blast and the charge mechanic. (I.E, you can either save most of the charges for raid buffs but you have to make sure to use them all before you hyper charge).

Eliminating a 700 potency 20 second button from the job that will severely limit the job's tools in dealing with adds and gaols. Think back to E8S add phase, where double electro adds spawn. A MCH can just Anchor and Drill both adds separately to soften them up or even just straight up kill them if they crit. Leave Drill/Bio alone, they're fine as it is, and will actually allow raid designers to add more multi-target mini dps checks for fights.

MCH aoe is a incredibly small improvement to SB that being the case DNC and BRD has much better Aoe tools.

I mean that's intended. BRD doesn't have an on demand burst, and neither does DNC.
BRD being good at multi target fights like TEA is a good niche that helps a lot with job identity.
MCH having on demand burst (Drill and Anchor) and having better single target dps is part of its good job identity.
DNC being good at multi add phases that gather together is arguably part of its job identity.

I don't agree that homogenizing one of the few areas where the ranged roles are different is a good idea, a job needs to have its pros and cons after all.

[Jirah]

I don't agree that homogenizing one of the few areas where the ranged roles are different is a good idea, a job needs to have its pros and cons after all.

Id rather do that if what we are "homogenzing" wasnt complex to begin with, aswell as fine tune whats available, MCH retaining what it is plus more is alot of padding as is unless they dont add anything but a aoe and a shallow upgrade which is the strongest possibility. This is purley a manner of perspective though as we have very different views on MCH. But MCH can do better than 6 ogcd and 2 gcds and call it "rapid" rather than being rapid like MNK or BRD after Arm's muse.