An end to the camping timer. An end to resale. A return to...

[Catstab]

What else are they going to spend their gil on in a game that lacks any significant gil sinks to drain gil back out of the system?

Well, if every small house sale pulled 40,000,000 out of the economy, each NA world would have been sunk an average of 31.6 billion gil in the past year. That's not even counting the considerable added value of mediums and larges.

(My math is 19,000 house purchases in NA during 2020* divided by 24 worlds equals roughly 790 purchases per world at 40,000,000 each)

As for the resale market, right now the purchase timer hinders it but not stop it.

Well, prior to the timer it was popular to purchase a house for 3m and then offer to relinquish for 20m+ to a prospective buyer. That is no longer possible at all, so in that way the timer did stop it.

My proposed change would bring houses closer to what people are willing to pay for them, and hopefully make the timer unnecessary. I honestly don't think even a handful of people would pay 84 million gil for a small house, and certainly no one is paying 315m for a medium (I mean, maybe for the medium). Keep in mind this is for resellers who want to make a modest 10% profit, not the ridiculous gouging that occurs presently.

[Buying for 40 million and selling for 40 million is] No longer worth it to you, perhaps.

40 minus 40 is 0. No one is going to do business just to break even. Right now you can spend 3m for a house and sell for 40m, 1300% profit. Spending 40, you'd have to sell your small FC for 520 million to make the same profit. With placard cost brought in line with demand, it's far more likely for the FC to come upon a house available at placard price than it is today. People are unlikely to pay any price that would support a market.

Ultimately, we're back to SE needs to fix the system... Ownership of a house should be an opportunity for every player in the game.

Sure, originally my post started out "If instanced housing or wards 25-80 are coming in 2021, then this is all moot" but I decided to move it to a footnote (my edit on the OP). I moved it mostly because it disrupted the post flow, but also because my suggestion is being made with a mind toward housing as it is now, rather than housing as it should be. My suggestion is coming from a place of "If only 1 in 5 players gets a house, how do you we pick which one?"


*source: https://i.imgur.com/PJfSdux.png courtesy Y'shtola Cat

[Jojoya]

40 minus 40 is 0. No one is going to do business just to break even.

If resellers are successfully getting 40 million for a 3 million gil piece of property right now as you say, what makes you think they won't be able to successfully get 60 or 80 as well if the property price increases?

People always complain about how much things cost - then they turn around and pay the price because they still want to have it.

My suggestion is coming from a place of "If only 1 in 5 players gets a house, how do you we pick which one?"

We don't. It's not up to us to decide who does or doesn't deserve to have a house. Housing is part of the base game package. That makes anyone who is paying the subscription fee deserving as long as they meet the requirements for the content, same as any other content.

If SE is not wiling/able to solve the supply issue, it should remain opportunity RNG like so many other items in the game that are effectively limited in quantity due to scarcity (like the Night Pegasus whistle, as an example). You're in the right place at the right time, and you win the roll or have the gil to buy immediately. Maybe you get lucky. Maybe you miss out because someone else got to it first.

Does SE need to adjust the purchase timer? Yes. A range of 2-4 hours is sufficient to let the available property come to the attention of multiple players so a reseller can't just "hand over the keys" to a new buyer.

Does SE need to stop suspending the demo timer? Yes. The compassion for those struggling in real life situations is appreciated but it's being applied in the wrong fashion. Do things that positively impact their real life situation in the moment instead of leaving that expression of compassion in a game the player may not return to for months if at all.

Does SE need to re-evaluate the use of shell FCs for obtaining housing for personal use? Yes. If there's a requirement for FCs to purchase, then there should be a requirement to retain ownership. Truly active FCs aren't going to have a problem. Inactive FCs shouldn't be treated any differently from inactive players. When it's down to one active player, you no longer have a Free Company. You have a mercenary for hire. That solo player shouldn't be getting the benefits intended for a group of players.

[Catstab]

If resellers are successfully getting 40 million for a 3 million gil piece of property right now as you say, what makes you think they won't be able to successfully get 60 or 80 as well if the property price increases?

They're being paid for being the first person to snap up a 3 million gil item in a sea of people who can afford it.

Fewer people can afford 40m than can afford 3m, so more houses will stay open longer. This means placard hunting is easier, so buyers are less motivated to pay reseller prices when they could do it themselves. With the investment so much higher, many resellers will not be able to afford. Those that can will find fewer buyers than before, less profit being made than before. This will have an undeniable effect on the market. You speak as if because the FC selling market would merely be crippled and not gone, like the relocation market would be, that the solution isn't worth it.

I agree with you that 'housing for all' is best, but I don't think SE is up to giving up 80 wards or giving us instanced housing.

If SE is not wiling/able to solve the supply issue, it should remain opportunity RNG... You're in the right place at the right time, and you win the roll or have the gil to buy immediately.

That's literally what I'm asking for.

Right now 'the right time' = 'any time between 0-22 hours after this house opened.' Before the timer, the right time was just being the first one to sweep when the house demolished.

Those who have 'the gil to buy immediately' should have the opportunity to do so. They do under my system, and doing so creates a gil sink for billions per year, instead of fueling a exploitative player market.

[Jojoya]

Fewer people can afford 40m than can afford 3m, so more houses will stay open longer.

It doesn't matter how many can afford 40 million versus 3 million. What matters is how many houses there will be compared to those who can afford the 40 million.

If we're still only seeing 6-8 houses relinquished/demolished per world a week, those houses won't be staying open any longer than they currently do.

You're also overlooking that if the prices go up, players who want a house will start earning and saving gil for the new price because that's what it will take to get a house.

Those who have 'the gil to buy immediately' should have the opportunity to do so. They do under my system, and doing so creates a gil sink for billions per year, instead of fueling a exploitative player market.

The exploitive market will continue to exist because the supply is still lacking.

[Catstab]

What matters is how many houses there will be compared to those who can afford the 40 million.

Again, you're reading what I'm saying, and then arguing against me by repeating my points back to me.

Let's put some numbers behind it to fuel the understanding process. Right now we will estimate 90% of players have 3 million gil. 20,000 players per server for this example. So 18,000 people compete for 4,300 personal houses. Outcome = 24% of eligible players can receive housing. We will assume 40% of players per server have 40 million. So with my pricing, we no longer have 18,000 house hunters, we have 8,000. 8,000 people go for 4,300 houses = 54% of eligible players receive housing.

Yes, these numbers are for all currently existing personal houses. You could as easily apply them to new wards. If 480 smalls in 3 new wards cost 3 million each then they have 18,000 eligible buyers and 2.6% of eligible players will get to relocate or purchase in those new wards. If prices go to 40 million then only 8,000 people can afford to buy in the new ward, and 6% of eligible players will get to move in.

"But Catstab, people would just craft, run their roulettes, and play in potd or eureka until they joined that eligible 40%, and it would slowly grow!"

Um, okay. So the people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots would instead go and play the video game till they earned a house? Why, it's almost as if you've discovered the entire foundation of my idea. A 40m price tag measures who is actually playing the game while 3 million can be made watching cutscenes. If we can't make more houses, we need to make players wait longer to get in line for one to keep those lines short.

If we're still only seeing 6-8 houses relinquished/demolished per world a week, those houses won't be staying open any longer than they currently do.

Severely decreasing the number of people eligible for houses is most definitely going to mean they stay open longer. You have fewer sweepers, fewer shoppers, and with the timer gone the empty plot doesn't spend 8+ hours as a beacon for campers. Plots that close in 1-5 seconds currently would start staying open 1-20 minutes or more.

The exploitive[sic] market will continue to exist because the supply is still lacking.

Selling FCs would be harder to invest in and return less, the market would exist but only in a phenomenally reduced state. Selling relocation would be next to impossible and would not ever occur for profit. I've already explained why in above posts.

[Jojoya]

So 18,000 people compete for 4,300 personal houses.

Except those 18,000 players aren't going to have 4300 personal houses to compete over. They're going to have 6-8 a week, or about 400 a year.

Even Ishgard is only going to add another 1440 houses if it opens as a standard housing district with the same number of wards we currently have in the other districts.

If 480 smalls in 3 new wards cost 3 million each then they have 18,000 eligible buyers and 2.6% of eligible players will get to relocate or purchase in those new wards. If prices go to 40 million then only 8,000 people can afford to buy in the new ward, and 6% of eligible players will get to move in

And 480 smalls are not going to last any longer with only 8,000 competing for them than they would with 18,000. You've still got thousands of potential buyers rushing in hoping they'll get one before they're sold out.

So the people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots would instead go and play the video game till they earned a house

The people who are currently huddled like seagulls on empty plots are still going to be huddled like seagulls on empty plots because they already own them. SE isn't going to make the purchase price increase retroactive then take houses away from those who don't pay up any more than they're going to take away grandfathered multiple houses.

It's not going to stop more players from buying then sitting on unused plots because they've got nothing better to spend the gil on and once they've paid that one time price it's theirs. They don't have to pay another gil.

Selling FCs would be harder to invest in and return less, the market would exist but only in a phenomenally reduced state. Selling relocation would be next to impossible and would not ever occur for profit. I've already explained why in above posts.

Increasing prices does nothing to make it next to impossible to resell for profit when players don't have any other substantial purchases to make in this game other than a house and the number of available houses is still much smaller than the number of players able to buy.

There is too much gil being generated on a daily basis and nothing significant taking that gil back out of the system.

"That why we should increase house prices - to take that gil out of the system!"

That only works if there is a house available for every player with the gil to buy. If they can't buy, the gil continues to accumulate in the system.

Right now, only 6-8 players per world get a chance to buy each week. That's not much of a gil sink when you're talking 18,000 players. It would take 43 years for every player to finally have a chance to buy a house at that rate.

If SE doesn't fix the supply problem, increasing the price accomplishes nothing.

They aren't going to increase the prices. They will not allow the rich the housing market.

I can see them increasing the prices if they don't solve the supply problem, though I don't see them being increased to the amounts that Catstab is suggesting.

You're right that they're not going to limit housing to the rich but then what is rich these days?

Where are they going to go with this system to address the obvious flaws when it comes to making it engaging content for the entire player base instead of just the small minority that gets lucky? We'll have to wait and see.

[Catstab]

That only works if there is a house available for every player with the gil to buy. If they can't buy, the gil continues to accumulate in the system.

I mentioned in an earlier post that average 790 houses per world sold this year according to data posted by Yshtola Cat. Thats 31.6 billion in placard prices, up from 2.37 billion.

I would say 29.2 billion gil is a significant removal from the system. If each world has 20,000 players that is an average of 1.46 million gil per player, serverwide.

If SE doesn't fix the supply problem, increasing the price accomplishes nothing.


I can see them increasing the prices if they don't solve the supply problem, though I don't see them being increased to the amounts that Catstab is suggesting.

You're right that they're not going to limit housing to the rich but then what is rich these days?

I do continue to agree that giving us instanced housing or 50 more wards is better than restricting access to artificially add to supply.

But as you say, if they can't/don't fix the supply, they could do something similar to a price increase - realistically, what are the options?
-Change the level requirement of a personal house to 80 (or multiple 80s)
-Change the FC rank requirement to Captain
-Increase the placard price (to me, this option has the most benefits)
-Something absurd like 'amaro club' or 'mentors' or 'savage raiders'

What is rich these days? Certainly not 40 million. I think enough players have it that houses would still sell, but I think few enough people have it that small houses in the goblet would occasionally sit open up to a couple hours.

I still say pricing the houses at or above their true worth is the best way to increase supply and stop resale, and still think it'd allow us to do away with the timer.