MNK Rework is a great start

[ssunny2008]

Every six gcds you do that for, you lose the equivalent of a leaden fist.

Monks relative damage from GCDs has increased, not decreased. They cast OGCDs more often now, but they all do significantly less damage. Very few of them got any potency buff to balance out losing the 30% from Greased lightning. Forbidden Chakra even got hit by an additional 8%or so.

Tornado Kick really just covers the loss of Auto attack potency.

Edit: Also, just checking the patch note changes

Every positional increased from 20 to 30, so that just adds to the confusion.

And which equivalent you´re talking about?

I´ve read the patch notes thx. That chakra has way more proccs is more worth than the 30% (38%) loss. TK is a completely new off gcd with 400 potency which wasn´t a thing before. All what you´re going to lose is 90 potency every 12s, even less if you still want to force "true monk". Just go to a dummy and test it out. The damage loss is not relevant if you stuck behind the boss even without TN or RoE. Savage content can be done without side positionals.
I did it by myself and i did pretty much the same damage without positionals as before with positionals. Doing positionals now was like a ~5% increase only. And together with RoE on cd at every side-rotation (perfect 6s), it´s pretty much braindead and you´re going to lose even less damage.

This means, positionals are pretty much irrelevant anymore unless you want to farm some logs.

[Kabooa]

And which equivalent you´re talking about?

I was quite specific.

If you choose to ignore that, the data we can look at, and the math involved, that is your choice.

[Jirah]

This reminds me of when they changed Ninja and Machinist. Half the people were happy that problems with the job had been fixed, the other half complained that it "wasn't the same". You will never make everyone happy and someone will always complain no matter what SE does.

No job in the game has universal praise, some find DNC boring, some hate SAM repeat Skill ect. The best thing to do is understand where they are comming from before you invalidate them as chaff. Imagine a job you love turned ugly for players that never cared for it to begin with? You’d be mad too and MNK is going through it just like NIN and MCH did aswell as the healers

[AncientWillow]

Honestly i was enjoying monk before patch now i dont think ill play it anymore it was engaging now its meha booring

[Fast_Iain]

Gonna throw some more in the pot. But ever since SB, MNK has been in a position where you never lost GL. Literally TK was used a lot because how easy it was to get back GL. The same kinda applies in ShB where you're always in GL unless you get screwed by cutscenes. IMO making it a permanent triat is pointing it in the right direction. Some may say its just a button mashing job now, it always has been THE button mashing job, the point of it is going fast. People are going to have different opinions about the job.

[Jirah]

Gonna throw some more in the pot. But ever since SB, MNK has been in a position where you never lost GL. Literally TK was used a lot because how easy it was to get back GL. The same kinda applies in ShB where you're always in GL unless you get screwed by cutscenes. IMO making it a permanent triat is pointing it in the right direction. Some may say its just a button mashing job now, it always has been THE button mashing job, the point of it is going fast. People are going to have different opinions about the job.

I disagree to that "button mash" job sentiment. Most jobs have structure to know when to use certain skills and adapt no job is just 1-2-3 with nothing to seek out.. besides "that" one. Due to the ties of positional no Melee job will ever be dunce levels of the Accessibility agenda that plagues the gaming industry

[Gameovers]

As a monk main at first I loved the idea of the GL change. but the more I play it something just feels super odd and off about it. I still don't know how to do the new opener and now I feel like I play worst then I normally did. Before I could say I was decent and silightly above normal now I feel like I just picked it up. I don't like the new opener I've been seeing on the net and I didn't like the TK opener either. HW monk was the best monk I feel now. I miss THAT monk. This one feels like it has no backbone. I'll be going back to sam for that backbone until I relearn monk again. The thought of no GL spamming sounded nice on paper until I got to play it sadly. Maybe I just suck.. :c

[Ariel_Valmont]

My hopes and personal wishes for further improvement to the current kit in 6.0 are:
- A tracker for Twin Snakes and Demolish built in the job gauge.
- The job gauge itself features a tiger... Why not a different frame to signal the form you\\\\'re currently in? If by some reason you have to interrupt your rotation, it\\\\'s a good way to glance and see what stage you\\\\'re at.
- Shoulder Tackle damage componenet replaced with a stun or a slow. It might be just me, but I hate when OGCDs movement utility abilities are tied to damage, because it\\\\'s never up when you actually need to move, as you have to weave them in for the dmg.
- I think Fists of Earth and Wind really need a buff on what they do, because it\\\\'s almost worthless to swap Fists for their utility. SSS gives a movement buff... Why not let that buff change according to the Fist you\\\\'re at?
- The Forbidden Chakra, it would be great if it had the same range of Enlightment or even a 15yr range. This would be amazing to have some damage to do while out of range running from stuff.
- Arm of the Destroyer moved to below level 20. It\\\\'s a major pain to partake in Roulettes that take you to a low level dungeon and you simply don\\\\'t even have an AoE.

Of course, I\\\\'m also expecting some new mechanic to replace the complexity lost with GL stacks. I wonder what they have in mind, since it\\\\'s basically a new thing. Maybe they can expand Fists functionality and interactivity, or maybe a new fourth animal form?

If you did the rotation properly pre patch, snakes and your dot were always up or just about, you can keep track of them on the buff/debuff bar, putting them on the job gauge is redundant and adds nothing to the job.

The job gauge features a coeurl, as in coeurl fists/stance, monk lore in general.

Shoulder tackle used to have dmg + stun, the stun was removed, you have two stacks of shoulder tackle, if you know the fight you should always have at least one stack up when you need it.

Fists of wind got a buff this expansion but a bunch of whiners got it removed, now it’s worthless outside of town.

You’re melee, you don’t attack from ranged, although a proper buff to have been implemented would have been a ranged skill like nin/drg/sam/pld/drk/war/gnb all have.

Plenty of jobs don’t have aoe under 20 it would be a qol, but go play drg if you really want to suffer without aoe.

As someone who has played MNK since ARR, the most recent changes suck, and makes me not even want to play it, but hey now people who couldn’t figure out how to keep greased lightning up can!

[Irisdina_Wiloh]

Having played Monk as my main DPS now since the middle of SB, I can honestly say I do not care that we no longer have to manage GL. Can you honestly tell me you didn't mind losing GL to situations outside of your control? I really enjoy cutscenes and down for the count causing me to drop GL and forcing me to reopen whilst everyone else, for the most part, gets to carry on with only minor hindrance. Did you really enjoy spamming form shift once that got changed? Did you really love being at the mercy of RoE proccing to save your GL back in SB?

I'm sorry that some people who play Monk are now angry over GL being removed as something you had to manage but I can say that I 100% prefer what we have now to what we had then. Now my opener is buttery smooth, I no longer have to double weave during my opener and clip my gcd just to make sure things go out on time for the rest of the raid and now I ramp up immediately, there's no delay anymore so now I actually quite enjoy reopening when applicable. You can say removing GL management has casualised the job if you want and yes, I see a lot of people say that now GL is gone, they might be more inclined to play the job, but to argue that it is casual and braindead now is foolishness. With GL gone, we are no longer shackled by it and this will hopefully allow the dev team to actually create some new, meaningful skills that aren't just GL extenders.

As for the RoE change, yeah i'm a little sore about it and in the current savage tier I'd be very happy to have kept the old RoE but it is what it is. There will always be people for and against positionals. I like them and I don't think SE have plans to remove them anytime soon.

[Ariel_Valmont]

The biggest offender here is the Fists stances. Since no changes were made to Fists of Wind and Fists of Earth with 5.4, except to remove Riddle of Wind, these skills have essentially been rendered worthless because there is no real battle situation where a MNK would choose to use their effects over the 10% damage buff of Fists of Fire. The Fists stances need a thorough examination and redesign to make them more compelling, or otherwise they need to be removed and replaced with more useful or interesting

Abilities which require no thought as to their use are boring because you just press them

I agree they need to expand the chakra system, they should at least up the amount to 7 to correspond to the belief of the 7 chakras, there is a whole pool of information about chakras they could use to make this more interesting and engaging.

Fists of wind was nerfed effectively making it useless, they actually did something with it, and people who can’t handle losing greased lightening to a cut scene are responsible for the step backwards.

I’ve lost track of the amount of times that fists of earth has prevented a wipe in dungeons/raids/trials (including ex). It has uses, situational yes but situational skills give jobs depth, and some of them are more useful in synced content (very much part of the game) and I think that’s where SE fails by listening to the forum whiners too much, some people think that every skill you have should be used in end game raiding, or it’s useless and that’s just not the case.

I preferred the old Anataman, I found it more useful then most people I guess.