MNK Rework is a great start

[SsCookie]

I'm not going to pretend I'm a mod nor am I trying to act like a saint, but please both of you drop this argument right now, as a personal request. There's nothing to gain from arguing and insulting each other.

I casually play every class and personally for me it was really difficult to figure out my pre-5.4 patch rotation smoothly when I brought my MNK to Alliance Raids. Even after I had a solid idea with the help from 'The Balance' website the adjustment to the changes and keeping track of GL, Twin Snakes, Positionals, everything in general was far more effort I had to put into any class with little reward due to very specific windows compared to the basic rotations of the other classes. In short, the learning curve to MNK just wasn't fun at all and having almost all my job classes to 80 this was my least favorite to relearn when I picked it back up in 5.3.

Say what you will, but know that this isn't something worth both of your guy's time insulting each other over. We've all worked hard to get where we're at with our characters so I get why both of you are frustrated. Just remember we're all are on the same fanbase, so we all represent it in some aspect. Plus this doesn't help the person who genuinely needs to read constructive feedback for the development team.

Edit: I'm new to the forms so I forgot to actually quote the two people but yes this post was intended for Ssunny2008 and MercuryD to read if they had the time.

[MercuryD]

I'm not going to pretend I'm a mod nor am I trying to act like a saint, but please both of you drop this argument right now, as a personal request. There's nothing to gain from arguing and insulting each other.

I understand what you're saying and appreciate the sentiment. There's no argument on my part, I've said all this before on another page. My reason for responding was to clarify some, in my opinion, misconceptions and provide information as to why I see them as such.

The FFXIV resume thing was pretty cheeky, I'll admit that. I thought it was clever at the time

[Kahnom]

To be honest, I kinda like the old MNK. Without GL to maintains, I feel the job is lacking something.
Of course, losing stacks because of cutscences or mechanics are annoying but MNK that has no GL to maintain is ... well, doesn’t feel like MNK anymore.
All veteran MNKs know that the only way to evolve MNK is by making the job harder, like more intense positioning , or manipulating GL stacks for maximize damages. Stormblood MNK’s openner, for example, was the right direction to evolve MNK but got thrown away real fast.
Just thinking about it for a sec, Tornado kick opener + GL4 + ability that grants 3 GL stacks instantly or even new skill that cost 2 GL stacks for insane damage or new combo weapon skill that grants 2 GL stacks instead of one.
All these possibilities are just in front of us but it’s out of the window now since GL was gone.
In the end, this rework might please some players but it obviously not the evolution we’ve been looking for.
...
...
Now I completely understand how the old main MCH & DRK felt .......

[Raikai]

Finally Monk is enjoyable for me, given the riddance of Greased Lightning stacking. I think that was way too punishing because of the positional aspect of the job... Said that, Monk feels pretty raw right now, but that was to be expected to be honest. They are just probably setting the groundwork for an actual revamp in 6.0, because I'd think it would be too unrealistic to expect such a thing when ShB is going to its end.

My hopes and personal wishes for further improvement to the current kit in 6.0 are:
- A tracker for Twin Snakes and Demolish built in the job gauge.
- The job gauge itself features a tiger... Why not a different frame to signal the form you're currently in? If by some reason you have to interrupt your rotation, it's a good way to glance and see what stage you're at.
- Shoulder Tackle damage componenet replaced with a stun or a slow. It might be just me, but I hate when OGCDs movement utility abilities are tied to damage, because it's never up when you actually need to move, as you have to weave them in for the dmg.
- I think Fists of Earth and Wind really need a buff on what they do, because it's almost worthless to swap Fists for their utility. SSS gives a movement buff... Why not let that buff change according to the Fist you're at?
- The Forbidden Chakra, it would be great if it had the same range of Enlightment or even a 15yr range. This would be amazing to have some damage to do while out of range running from stuff.
- Arm of the Destroyer moved to below level 20. It's a major pain to partake in Roulettes that take you to a low level dungeon and you simply don't even have an AoE.

Of course, I'm also expecting some new mechanic to replace the complexity lost with GL stacks. I wonder what they have in mind, since it's basically a new thing. Maybe they can expand Fists functionality and interactivity, or maybe a new fourth animal form?

[Gravagar]

Keeping in mind that this is just "part 1" of the monk rework, I'm glad to see this. It's probably lacking some important polish still... But, this IS one of the most comprehensive reworks of any job outside of a new expansion launch we've ever seen. Considering how lacking in polish in it was on this expansion's launch, though, I am glad it has gotten some now, rather than 6 months from now. Now, you've got something to look forward to with the next expansion, since you know "part 2" is coming and it's not going to be... whatever it was they thought they were doing in 5.0.


I'm hoping positive vibes about this change of tactics reach SE, so that they do it again for different jobs. Because no job should be left in a cruddy state for 2 years, without hope of any triage, just because it's not on-brand to do so until a somewhat arbitrary and excessively long amount of time has passed.

[Ariel_Valmont]

If i read everything here, i highly doubt that anyone of you guys is a decent savage player or have even played monk the last half year. Monk has changed and not for the best when we talk about raids. Everything else is not even worth to talk about since dungeons or other stuff are pretty much "no brainer" anyway.

So what is so good actually?

- Less movement speed since you´ve to stuck on fists of fire, which makes mechanics and positionals harder and that on the only melee class without a descent escape / backjump, which needs the highest boss uptime with less than 2s GCD?
- To spam RoE every 6s to have even a chance to do positional - damage in a lot of mechanics especially in the new raids? Meanwhile the 10% dmg.red. becomes pretty much useless?
- To have a pretty much overfilled opener with all the off gcd´s and random proccs?

I guess that´s NOT good.

All you care about is, that GL is gone. What was the issue with it? A cutszene? Improvisation and it was up pretty fast again. And if you died... well... you died. It´s not the games fault that you died obviously.
Maintaining GL was a completely standard function if you played your rotation and used button X in moment X aka anatman or seven sided star. What was so hard? Yet we have a button spamming class without a soul, which is pretty horrible to play in the new raids and i don´t even want to try E8s with its mechanics where 30s RoE was pretty much needed. Slower movement + boss dancing + RoE spamming + rotation, yeah thx square enix, well played....
All what you see is: "Yey no more form shift in dungeons or losing stacks when i die.", but that´s definately not all.

Imagine SE would´ve implemented a stack-safe-option for cutszenes instead of doing some horrible changes, we would still have a smooth class instead of that a clunky buttonspammer. And calling it a "decent ground for 6.0" or whatever, yeah... a patch which comes in 8 or 9 months, maybe even later? Good to reveal this unfinished "rework" for the last tier of shadowbringers. Brainless button smashing is sooo muuuuch fuuuun.

This person gets it.

[Payadopa]

I don't really play monk so what do I know, but from what I observe from afar is that usually SE takes something out or changes it so it's more mindless. I dunno.

[Ryaz]

This reminds me of when they changed Ninja and Machinist. Half the people were happy that problems with the job had been fixed, the other half complained that it "wasn't the same". You will never make everyone happy and someone will always complain no matter what SE does.

[ssunny2008]

This reminds me of when they changed Ninja and Machinist. Half the people were happy that problems with the job had been fixed, the other half complained that it "wasn't the same". You will never make everyone happy and someone will always complain no matter what SE does.

Of course you can´t build up something 100/100 ppl will like, it´s just not possible. But objectively seen, monk had no real issues and it´s a step back. It´s obviously a rework or tweak for lazy players.

To lose GL stacks in cutszenes was bad yes, but PB did the job to bring them back immediately. That was the only real issue which was out of players hands. If we look at the skills, only 2 of them head no real use too. TK was pretty much useless, maybe useful in 1/1000 fights to farm that 10 DPS more. Fists of earth... do i really need to say something about it?
Yet we have 2 of 3 fists which are pointless again. Anatman which is pretty much pointless, TK have become an off GCD filler, but this could be anything, it´s nothing special anymore. And with the changes of RoE you can´t use it well for special boss mechanics, but you can spam it on cooldown, so you don´t have to play positionals most of the time.

And if we talk about positionals, the last thing that makes the monk actually the monk, they have become pretty much useless. While GL is gone, the damage got increased, TK is a new hard hitting off GCD and chakra proccs way more often. Just look at the potency numbers. 30 points extra if you play from position X. So as example you have a potency of 300 instead of 270. If we only take the core rotation in mind, it´s like losing 10-15% damage multipliers only, if you play the positionaly wrong on purpose.
Now we go a step further.

- We all know that bootshine does the most damage trough it´s 100% crit from behind. This means that you just stay behind the boss permanently.
- If you ignore the positionals on the 3 sideskills, you´ll actually lose only like 5% potency in the core rotation.
- And on top of that, way more damage comes with the off GCD´s now since TK and probably the doubled amount of chakra proccs is a thing.

This means, that you actually can pretty much ignore side positionals, but you would still do more than enough damage to finish any savage content if you hold everything on cooldown and just stick behind the boss. And if you get in trouble with bootshine, you can spam RoE or true north.
Of course someone could say, you could´ve done that before too, but the most damage came from core rotation with positionals. Yet we´ve way more off GCD´s to compensate the changes with GL.

That said again, monk got slower and plays pretty much braindead. The soul is gone and positionals are not that relevant anymore. Of course some lazy guys do enjoy such lazy casual changes...

[Kabooa]

- We all know that bootshine does the most damage trough it´s 100% crit from behind. This means that you just stay behind the boss permanently.
- If you ignore the positionals on the 3 sideskills, you´ll actually lose only like 5% potency in the core rotation.
- And on top of that, way more damage comes with the off GCD´s now since TK and probably the doubled amount of chakra proccs is a thing.

Every six gcds you do that for, you lose the equivalent of a leaden fist.

Monks relative damage from GCDs has increased, not decreased. They cast OGCDs more often now, but they all do significantly less damage. Very few of them got any potency buff to balance out losing the 30% from Greased lightning. Forbidden Chakra even got hit by an additional 8%or so.

Tornado Kick really just covers the loss of Auto attack potency.

Edit: Also, just checking the patch note changes

Every positional increased from 20 to 30, so that just adds to the confusion.