MNK Rework is a great start

[ssunny2008]

If i read everything here, i highly doubt that anyone of you guys is a decent savage player or have even played monk the last half year. Monk has changed and not for the best when we talk about raids. Everything else is not even worth to talk about since dungeons or other stuff are pretty much "no brainer" anyway.

So what is so good actually?

- Less movement speed since you´ve to stuck on fists of fire, which makes mechanics and positionals harder and that on the only melee class without a descent escape / backjump, which needs the highest boss uptime with less than 2s GCD?
- To spam RoE every 6s to have even a chance to do positional - damage in a lot of mechanics especially in the new raids? Meanwhile the 10% dmg.red. becomes pretty much useless?
- To have a pretty much overfilled opener with all the off gcd´s and random proccs?

I guess that´s NOT good.

All you care about is, that GL is gone. What was the issue with it? A cutszene? Improvisation and it was up pretty fast again. And if you died... well... you died. It´s not the games fault that you died obviously.
Maintaining GL was a completely standard function if you played your rotation and used button X in moment X aka anatman or seven sided star. What was so hard? Yet we have a button spamming class without a soul, which is pretty horrible to play in the new raids and i don´t even want to try E8s with its mechanics where 30s RoE was pretty much needed. Slower movement + boss dancing + RoE spamming + rotation, yeah thx square enix, well played....
All what you see is: "Yey no more form shift in dungeons or losing stacks when i die.", but that´s definately not all.

Imagine SE would´ve implemented a stack-safe-option for cutszenes instead of doing some horrible changes, we would still have a smooth class instead of that a clunky buttonspammer. And calling it a "decent ground for 6.0" or whatever, yeah... a patch which comes in 8 or 9 months, maybe even later? Good to reveal this unfinished "rework" for the last tier of shadowbringers. Brainless button smashing is sooo muuuuch fuuuun.

[IruruCece]

If i read everything here, i highly doubt that anyone of you guys is a decent savage player or have even played monk the last half year.

Look, I'm not a huge fan of the GL change, but uh, the OP themselves is far from an incompetent raider or a bad player of the job based on their youtube, and doubtless there are plenty of players here who feel the same.

It's a divisive change, and there are folks like me who don't like it, but there are also folks who do like it. There are plenty of legitimate arguments for both. At the end of the day, it's happened, and players will have to figure it out and deal with whatever comes next.

[ssunny2008]

Look, I'm not a huge fan of the GL change, but uh, the OP themselves is far from an incompetent raider or a bad player of the job based on their youtube, and doubtless there are plenty of players here who feel the same.

It's a divisive change, and there are folks like me who don't like it, but there are also folks who do like it. There are plenty of legitimate arguments for both. At the end of the day, it's happened, and players will have to figure it out and deal with whatever comes next.

There were mostly only 2 arguments against the monk, positionals and GL. Both got pretty hard improved with SHB, especially with GL4. But ppl still complained for whatever reason instead of picking another class when monk is obviously not their favorite.
And yes, it happened, but such things need to stop. It´s a good game and has a lot to offer, but forcing everything to be "braindead" is a no go. There are enough classes and SE could easily design different tiers into them like "dragoon = easy, samurai = mediocre, monk= hard" to play to cater the whole audience. But instead of doing that, everything just become easier in easier, classes, content, pretty much everything.
Everyone who really wanted to play a decent monk, could´ve read the skills, test stuff by themself, adjust to boss fights or go to google.com and check 1000 guides to learn and improve.

If something isn´t fun or to hard for you, why would you force it to change when you´ve 16 other options? Monk might have been always a bit in struggle before, but again, SHB monk with PB, RoE, SSS, Anatman, form shift and especially GL4 was fine.

[VentVanitas]

If i read everything here, i highly doubt that anyone of you guys is a decent savage player or have even played monk the last half year.

Thanks, we all needed a laugh.

[Ryaz]

Thanks, we all needed a laugh.

Yeah, dude has 15 posts since 2014 and uses most of them to insult the "casuals" and other players. Probably won't be last long. He'll get bored after he's done berating everyone and flexing how great he s compared to everyone else.

Monk does need some more tweaks, which will hopefully come in the next expected with a better rework.

[ssunny2008]

Yeah, dude has 15 posts since 2014 and uses most of them to insult the "casuals" and other players. Probably won't be last long. He'll get bored after he's done berating everyone and flexing how great he s compared to everyone else.

Monk does need some more tweaks, which will hopefully come in the next expected with a better rework.

If you feel that insulted, because i highly doubt that anyone of the pre-commentors is a decent savage player or have played monk the last half year, than it´s completely up to you, you know?

But that some guys think, that losing FoW, the new RoE and a high speed button smashing opener are an improvement right now, shows me a lot about their game-knowledge. I would bet that the most players actually will die, because FoW is gone and that they don´t know "when to use SSS", otherwise they´re going to lose a lot of damage.
The 5.3 monk gave you more time to keep your off gcd´s rolling in the opener, you were much faster in movement ALWAYS and RoE let you easily play certain boss mechanics. All this is gone.

[MercuryD]

If i read everything here, i highly doubt that anyone of you guys is a decent savage player or have even played monk the last half year. Monk has changed and not for the best when we talk about raids. Everything else is not even worth to talk about since dungeons or other stuff are pretty much "no brainer" anyway.

So what is so good actually?

- Less movement speed since you´ve to stuck on fists of fire, which makes mechanics and positionals harder and that on the only melee class without a descent escape / backjump, which needs the highest boss uptime with less than 2s GCD?
- To spam RoE every 6s to have even a chance to do positional - damage in a lot of mechanics especially in the new raids? Meanwhile the 10% dmg.red. becomes pretty much useless?
- To have a pretty much overfilled opener with all the off gcd´s and random proccs?

I guess that´s NOT good.

All you care about is, that GL is gone. What was the issue with it? A cutszene? Improvisation and it was up pretty fast again. And if you died... well... you died. It´s not the games fault that you died obviously.
Maintaining GL was a completely standard function if you played your rotation and used button X in moment X aka anatman or seven sided star. What was so hard? Yet we have a button spamming class without a soul, which is pretty horrible to play in the new raids and i don´t even want to try E8s with its mechanics where 30s RoE was pretty much needed. Slower movement + boss dancing + RoE spamming + rotation, yeah thx square enix, well played....
All what you see is: "Yey no more form shift in dungeons or losing stacks when i die.", but that´s definately not all.

Imagine SE would´ve implemented a stack-safe-option for cutszenes instead of doing some horrible changes, we would still have a smooth class instead of that a clunky buttonspammer. And calling it a "decent ground for 6.0" or whatever, yeah... a patch which comes in 8 or 9 months, maybe even later? Good to reveal this unfinished "rework" for the last tier of shadowbringers. Brainless button smashing is sooo muuuuch fuuuun.

Before going off on a rant you should actually read the responses that people have had. All you are saying to me is that you're a new player who learned to play at the 5.X play style and don't want it to change. Not liking change, fine, but don't try to belittle those who have experience with the jobs who can see and understand the improvements that were made thanks to this patch.

Again: this is a tweak, not a rework. Please use the correct term to avoid misinformation.

[ssunny2008]

Before going off on a rant you should actually read the responses that people have had. All you are saying to me is that you're a new player who learned to play at the 5.X play style and don't want it to change. Not liking change, fine, but don't try to belittle those who have experience with the jobs who can see and understand the improvements that were made thanks to this patch.

Again: this is a tweak, not a rework. Please use the correct term to avoid misinformation.

Yeah i´m that kind of a new player who is here since 2014.

What experience do you actually have? And what improvements came with the patch? Not maintaining GL anymore is nothing else but QoL for ppl who can´t use some buttons. Monk has actually lost the speed of FoW, a 30s positional window got changed to a 6s spam button and the opener got overfilled. The only issue with GL was behind a cutszene, nothing more.
Actually the monk got not improved, it got casualized and some more buttons became even more useless. Just have a look at PB. Ppl found out that you can use 6 attacks with enough speed. Now you´ve tons of time, but it´s still limited to 6 attacks. Is that any improvement for the players who build up their monk for that and maybe "true monk"? No, it´s not. It´s just something for players who can´t hit their buttons in time.
Those changes are nothing else than the tank-reworks at the beginning of SHB. No DD stances anymore, 3 button rotation and a tankstance for players, who can´t play a simple rotation to hold the boss or adds at their own. Just waiting until SE gets ride off any positional skills to make melee´s completely boring and uninteresting.

And yeah, i´m talking about a rework. You think this is a tweak?

- GL gone (the core aspect)
- FoW gone
- PB, Anatman, TK, RoE, Brotherhood, SSS, FoF changed
- Potency increases everywhere

If that is just a tweak for you, then i don´t know... Next to the 123 button rotation monk plays different, works different and is obviously different than before. Monk worked fine, but i guess it´s always easier to complain until something gets easier instead of learning and playing with the given circumstances.

And it´s definately not the time to speculate about something, which could be in a year or so. If SE have such big plans, they could´ve waited with the rework until 6.0 and giving us a full and fun rework instead of a forgivable button smasher.

[Tracewood]

Will throw my hat into the "agreement pile".

I've been able to focus much more on boss mechanics, while figuring out an optimal rotation and it's far less stressful. Moreso than my Samurai. Also like feeling helpful in content by using Brotherhood and Mantra.
What I'd like to see 6.0 onward:
--Another Chakra ability, but not as potent... a Chi Blast that consumes ONE chakra stack. It'll be our long range ability to use if we have to make distance but want to add a little uptime.
--On the subject of Chakra, maybe have an ongoing fiery effect when you have all five currently. It's cosmetic, but would look cool.

Other than that, this new MNK is much more fun than I've imagined.

[MercuryD]

Yeah i´m that kind of a new player who is here since 2014.

What experience do you actually have? And what improvements came with the patch? Not maintaining GL anymore is nothing else but QoL for ppl who can´t use some buttons. Monk has actually lost the speed of FoW, a 30s positional window got changed to a 6s spam button and the opener got overfilled. The only issue with GL was behind a cutszene, nothing more.
Actually the monk got not improved, it got casualized and some more buttons became even more useless.

And yeah, i´m talking about a rework. You think this is a tweak?

- GL gone (the core aspect)
- FoW gone
- PB, Anatman, TK, RoE, Brotherhood, SSS, FoF changed
- Potency increases everywhere

If that is just a tweak for you, then i don´t know... Next to the 123 button rotation monk plays different, works different and is obviously different than before.

Since apparently you\\\\'d like my FFXIV resume... I\\\\'ve played monk as main/co-main since 2.0 doing all BCoB, a few turns of Alex savage, Eden 1-3 on monk. I\\\\'ve done every extreme released except WoL, Emerald and Misera on monk. I\\\\'ve done every dungeon released on monk. I\\\\'ve done every 24-man on monk. But I don\\\\'t have experience? Okay.

FoW is an absolute non-issue and most/many monk mains really don\\\\'t even count that as a loss. The important thing is keeping GL4 speed, which we did.

GL was a frankly antiquated mechanic as SE has shown since late SB they\\\\'re going to be releasing long, unavoidable breaks in fights that will result in a MNK being at a vast disadvantage compared to all other DPS. It wasn\\\\'t hard to upkeep otherwise but that\\\\'s not relevant.

The changes to the abilities were mostly improvements, except Anatman i guess and SSS.

MNK hasn\\\\'t changed their core rotation since 2.0 (DK, TS, Demo, Boot, True, Snap, repeat with subbing snap for demo on occasion) The ONLY change was for double true which was a net dps loss if you messed up at all anyway.

SE listened to us in regard to chakra and brotherhood, at least in part. We wanted a way to guarantee chakra to alleviate heavy RNG, we get 100% chance on crit. We want brotherhood damage to effect all damage, not just physical plus give all abilities chance to chakra and they did just that. Sure, we do have overflow of chakra but a change to the guage can fix that in 6.0.

And yes, this is a tweak, not a rework. Reworks don\\\\'t happen mid patch cycle, they happen on expac launches. I haven\\\\'t seen a single OFFICIAL source call 5.4 a rework, only fan translations. Officially SE said MNK was getting adjusted and that the adjustment are sizeable. Which they are.