On Fandaniel (5.3 onward spoilers)

[Morningstar1337]

While I like villains that are just insane and want to destroy, I really hate the way they are portrayed as clowns. This fell on both fandanial and whatshisface from the emerald weapon questline. With their mannerisms and their facial expressions. That wide eye'd thing fandanial kept doing was just awful. You can be insane and not be a jester. It just makes them seem less threatening and kinda, well, just stupid. I know they are trying to portray them as insane, but its such a boring, lazy and overdone portrayal of insanity.

Yotsuyu, she was nuts and wanted to burn the place down, but she wasn't a clown. She was crazy done well. Not to mention her voice actress was amazing.

I blame the influence of one "The Joker", who was less "jester" and more "legitimacy insane and with the clown act as just a gimmick", AND was also fleshed over over the span of Nearly a century.

To me it felt like the time given to him was tacked on at the end when it could have been built up more and his motivations could have been expanded upon and had him in more scenes. Imo the stuff that came before could have easily been cut as imo that part of the story wasnt that great or interesting.

I dunno, I get the feeling that this is done to set up later developments. For example if post-Zodiarc stories wind up being about human-beastman relationships in Eorzea improving, the showing that the three city states reconciling with them would likely be necessary to that end. Plus it would fee like a hell of a cop out for that to happen off-screen and Eorzea does need a completely united front.

Likewise Ga Bu's fate was a loose end that needed closure in some form giving how importiant he is to Alisaile's character arc.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I wasn't impressed by Emet either in 4.4 or 4.5 but then ShB happened, so hopefully history repeats itself with Fandaniel and he has a lot more going on with him than first appears. I'm concerned but have an open mind.

At least unlike Zenos he's fun to watch, though. His VA is hamming it up and loving it. I just want Zenos to go away whenever he's on screen.

[ObsidianFire]

Frandaniel is... basically Kuja from FF9. Who is annoying and who's only purpose is to create problems for everyone else. Kudja doesn't have a VA though with helps make him not as annoying. Frandandiel... does and it makes me remember the one of the reasons I can never say FF9 is a FF I like all that much is that Kuja is someone I love to hate because he's annoying and would he stop bombing all the interesting parts of his own game just because he wants to die??? It's... aggravating more than anything else.

One thing I think we're missing is Zodiark himself. We know from interviews that the next expansion is the end of the Zoidark/Hydaelyn conflict. Which kinda means we need a reason and means to get to Zodiark himself. Only... he's on the moon. I'm thinking Frandaniel and Zenos are mainly means to getting there... and then it's going to turn out that both of them bit off more than they could chew trying to use Zoidark for their own ends...

Looking at the pattern of x.4 and x.5 patches... both of them introduce mini-villians that get taken out in the x.5 patch to make way for the man x.0 big bad. 2.4-5 introduce Ilbred who gets taken out in 2.5 because our actual enemy in Heavensward is Thordan and Nidhogg. 3.4-5 introduce Ilbred again who gets taken out on 3.5 to make way for Zenos in 4.0. 4.4-5 introduce Varis and the threat of the Empire only port us to an entirely different world in 5.0 where Emet-Selch is the real bad guy. It's not to hard to think that Frandaniel will be around in 5.4-5 only for the real enemy to be someone else in 6.0... and Yoshida has already mentioned what 6.0 is about: Zodiark.

What is also different is that without Covid, we would already know both the name of the next expansion, and concept art of what some off it's zones would be. We've never been flying this blind before towards an expansion... So it's harder to see how things in the x.4 patch will link up to the next expansion.

[NoblePigeon]

Bringing about the final days and summoning Zodiark is apart of this, but calling him "not complex" and that we should just "be okay" with this doesn't really give him justice when he's only just hit the scene and we can see the ground work being setup. It's clear by now he is going to be living past 5.5 and is the real villain of the next expansion, so lets give him the chance to be the big bad.

That certainly wasn't what I meant, but maybe I should have worded the OP differently, so that's on me. As I said above, I think it's fair to be concerned about how he can be handled, because it can very easily fall into stale, stagnant territory, or, worse, annoying.

I suppose I just wish people weren't so quick to judge. People thought "Solus" introduced in Stormblood was just gonna be a carbon copy Ardyn, and he ended up being so much more.

[Theodric]

There's a striking difference between a villain and an antagonist. The former tends to be lacking in redeeming qualities, whereas the latter tends to have sympathetic motives. The fact of the matter is that the likes of Emet-Selch are extremely popular. The guy beat many a fan favourite in popularity polls across all game regions. Zenos worked well, I feel, for the duration of Stormblood's base expansion. Ever since, he's felt more like a plot device than a character - and has robbed us of situations and characters that would arguably make for a more compelling story overall.

Furthermore, it's one thing to have one irredeemable villain as the focus. It's another matter entirely to have two of them. Personally I'm of the belief that Fandaniel was, in part, created just to stop scenes with Zenos being so boring given that Zenos is spending most of his time sitting around on a chair complaining about being bored.

I don't particularly like either of them at the moment. Though Fandaniel is, at least, more of an engaging presence and there's a chance he might have more compelling motives than he lets on.

[NoblePigeon]

There's a striking difference between a villain and an antagonist. The former tends to be lacking in redeeming qualities, whereas the latter tends to have sympathetic motives. The fact of the matter is that the likes of Emet-Selch are extremely popular. The guy beat many a fan favourite in popularity polls across all game regions. Zenos worked well, I feel, for the duration of Stormblood's base expansion. Ever since, he's felt more like a plot device than a character - and has robbed us of situations and characters that would arguably make for a more compelling story overall.

Furthermore, it's one thing to have one irredeemable villain as the focus. It's another matter entirely to have two of them. Personally I'm of the belief that Fandaniel was, in part, created just to stop scenes with Zenos being so boring given that Zenos is spending most of his time sitting around on a chair complaining about being bored.

I don't particularly like either of them at the moment. Though Fandaniel is, at least, more of an engaging presence and there's a chance he might have more compelling motives than he lets on.

Isn't that the point, though? Well, sort of. As I see it, Zenos is more a force of nature, an unpredictable wild card that drives the story and generates conflicts. I don't think they'll make him the center piece antagonist as it was in Stormblood, I think he works best when working in conjunction with, intentionally or no, of bigger problems the heroes have to solve.

[RyuDragnier]

Frandaniel is... basically Kuja from FF9. Who is annoying and who's only purpose is to create problems for everyone else. Kudja doesn't have a VA though with helps make him not as annoying.

Dissidia: Final Fantasy says hi.

[Iscah]

While I like villains that are just insane and want to destroy, I really hate the way they are portrayed as clowns. This fell on both fandanial and whatshisface from the emerald weapon questline. With their mannerisms and their facial expressions. That wide eye'd thing fandanial kept doing was just awful. You can be insane and not be a jester. It just makes them seem less threatening and kinda, well, just stupid. I know they are trying to portray them as insane, but its such a boring, lazy and overdone portrayal of insanity.

This. The literal prancing about make him absolutely dizzying to watch. I wish he'd just stay still and talk.

I've never been keen on the more contorted facial expressions they keep having him do, either.

[JeanneOrnitier]

I don't think Kuja and Fandaniel are comparable at all. They both want to destroy the world and ride around on Bahamut, but that's it. Kuja wasn't unhinged Kefka-esque the way Fandaniel is, just the opposite he put on a more outwardly noble appearance. Moreover, he didn't want to die. That was the core of his motivation, that he was afraid of his own mortality.

[Theodric]

Isn't that the point, though? Well, sort of. As I see it, Zenos is more a force of nature, an unpredictable wild card that drives the story and generates conflicts. I don't think they'll make him the center piece antagonist as it was in Stormblood, I think he works best when working in conjunction with, intentionally or no, of bigger problems the heroes have to solve.

The story isn't written in a way for a 'force of nature' character to be particularly compelling, though. As far as I'm concerned, at any rate. He hasn't killed anyone of note and likely never will at this point - and conveniently whenever he has done something, it's ended up working in favour of the protagonists. I don't find him to be intimidating or unsettling. Not in the way that Sephiroth was back in FF7, or Kefka in FF6 or any number of other JRPG villains with minimal redeeming qualities.

You're right in that he's probably just around now to advance the plot, though I feel other more engaging characters could have done so in his place. I get the impression that the writers themselves aren't entirely sure where they want him to go - since we had an entire plot point based around Elidibus taking over Zenos' body but then it amounts to very little in the end. Zenos also had no interest in the throne, but then later returns to take it anyway.

I think they've overused him. Every time we get a 'stinger' at the end of the MSQ's I just roll my eyes because it's inevitably more Zenos. I think they'll struggle to provide payoff at this rate.