Thread: Revelations from Patch 5.4

How is it simultaneously "already 5.4" yet also "the 67th umbral moon of 2020"?

If this is your first time joining us for patch day, we have fallen into a strange tradition where instead of carpet-bombing other threads with spoilers of stuff that just happened, we discuss each patch's contributions in a vacuum here. What usually happens is that the first wave of people each make their own "OP" with the name of the arc and a spoiler box...

Like

This

...which has all of the things they noticed, the story as they understood it, and comments / feedback for the development team.

Then people usually start quoting each other with the header visible and the content they're replying to in a spoiler box, and a spoiler box below it.

Originally Posted by Whoever

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Like

This

And that

This allows people to partake right from the get go without worrying they'll, say, spoil themselves on NieR by trying to talk about the MSQ.

──────────────────────────────────────With That Outta the Way...──────────────────────────────────────

MSQ (Complete)

Knee-Jerk First Impressions After Patch

What an odd patch. Everything we saw had meaning; it was important stuff. And yet, why are we doing it now? Why in this way? How did we get to wandering around for a few days ... skipping the Alliance hearings on the Second Garlean Civil War ... drag Hyllfyr out of bed, cure tempering, and make peace with the kobolds? If we need to throw around narrative weight and revision like this, either we were desperate for filler or 6.0 is gearing up to be wild...

Do you remember how serious and dark tempering was in 2010? In 2013? Could you ever have imagined we'd cure tempering, out of nowhere, as an afterthought errand ... using magical pixie pigs? Just ... droppin' by Matoya's Moving Castle and BAM, Deus Ex Bacon. WHAT? 6.0 is gearing up to be wild...

In all seriousness, I think the aetherometaphysics of are well thought out. I used the metaphor of magnetic tape to explain tempering to people after Egi lore was fleshed out and this jibes perfectly with that metaphor in terms of how to make sense of it and address it. Separate the "original" and "invading" waveforms and boost the original until the artifacts are drowned out. You can't just "record over it" unless you have a viable back-up.

Magical pixie pigs I did not see coming.

And then we drop by Limsa Lominsa and wrap up all the drama with the pirates factions. The last time we checked in on the Executioners, they were all schisms and terrorist attacks, but Hyllfyr getting screen-time for the first time since the Calamity has that effect on people. And cut from there to making peace with the suddenly untempered Patriarch of the Kobolds! What is Limsa about to get itself into? Where is the good ship Vylbrand headed that we did all that out of nowhere? 6.0 is gearing up to be wild.

And then ... towers and Lunar Bahamut and the second coming of the Final Days, in a quick ... Please Look Forward to It™ ... even though it was the majority of this patch's trailer drama. OK, see you then I guess. The towers feel a bit like the Maws in FFXI; ominous map objects that set up an expansion. But given that final scene did I somehow call this with a lucky guess?

Super convenient that we cured tempering at the same time the towers went up... Though what happened with being tempered being invisible and scary and it could be anyone? For the last few patches now we just look for the zombie-voiced NPCs with glowing eyes. This feels like a strange retcon to the approach but I assume it's functional...?

Anyway. Looking forward to Fandanny's death cult. Bring on the purple paroxysm. Hey since he's got Lunar Bahamut what are the chances he can get the remnants of the Lambs of Dalamud in on this? Zenos, though. This has dragged on so long and I'm still not sure why him surviving his pitch-perfect death was worth it. Our wild-card could have been any new character. Why him? I'm rooting for it to be amazing and feel like a complete story with a satisfying big picture, I really am. Maybe he just gets a really cathartic surprise death in 5.5 setting up our 6.0 story, Ilberd style. Idk.

Btw. Greek. Telo- (End) phor- (bringer) -oi (plural).

Archive of Live-Blog Notes

Right out of the gate we've got an interesting retcon reframe of tempering as having similarities to the sin eaters in having the soul of the tempered individual more stagnant/passive. (And an Allagan counterpart for the imprecise Eorzean term at that!) Well, that sure makes a solution slightly easier. My theory since we talked about how Egi work was that the solution would involve isolating the "invading waveform" and "drowning it out" by "boosting the original waveform of the individual over it" until it was drowned out. The magnetic tape metaphor worked well for this.

Anyroad, the Garlean Civil War meeting takes a back seat to checking in on our old friend Ga Bu...

The Bonanza was a shot of serotonin I didn't expect today.

Lmao. Confirmation that the "Archon's thesis" is a thing.
And apparently Allagan nodes sometimes have their own "startup jingle"...?
Password sequence was comedy gold; worth the fetch quest.

Jeez, I may have been pretty close with the tempering cause/cure. Mixing metaphors, of course; not like Hydaelyn has a lot of magnetic tape.

Wow, Aymeric just giving away ships and fuels without a vote. Nepotism ftw.
All this technological progress and we still transport ceruleum in wooden barrels...

Huh, reference to Mikoto and the crystal foci in the MSQ. Yoked-to-patch canon hard confirmed; no more half-juggling attempts?

So a conveniently-abandoned Allagan node has primal data which we can extrapolate with Serial Experiments Cid's supercomputer into a temper-curing magickal formula that G'raha instantly memorizes so we can make magical pigs which undo the second biggest problem we've had since the start of the game on an errand run while our friends are at important meetings. O-OK. Weird. But OK!



I love how there was all this uncertain drama about the Executioners that never really went anywhere and now Hyllfyr's just like, "May I remind you that I'm on Team Merlwyb?" after 7 years of silence. It was nice seeing this trio of elder pirate lords re-establish their commitment to Limsa's new direction, again, though. But where are they going...?

Merlwyb taking responsibility for the past admirals as the present face of Limsa was solid, though.


I kept hearing since 5.3, "What if the unsundered being dead means we can have a friendly Ascian now? We have no proof they're all tempered!"
Let's go live to Fandaniel.
"I JUST WANT TO DIE AND TAKE EVERYONE WITH ME IN A PAROXYSM OF PAIN AND SUFFERING!"



LOL

Eden
I haven't started this one, yet, but I hear on the grapevine we're continuing Greek names, eh?
Still time for the Originals to be confirmed Hades, Zeus, and Poseidon, then?

Well, I've finally gone through all of the new content, or so I believe. Final thoughts: This was a patch carried heavily by its side content. I am genuinely surprised at how little I cared about the MSQ, and thankful I found so much to love about Eden's Promise, the Sorrow of Werlyt, the new Void Quests, and the intercession for YorHa: Dark Apocalypse.

MSQ:

Nerva was brought up. Seems he made a bid for the throne. Given that Zenos took it, he's probably dead. RIP Nerva, we hardly knew ye.

Nice to see Lyse again. She's exactly how I remember her: Yda, but occasionally serious. Also, apparently she is an Archon now? Or maybe she just never graduated.

The comparison of the tempered to sin eater victims is one everyone saw coming, but "their aether is stagnant" seems... odd. I thought that was the result of Light corruption specifically, rather than "any old corruption".

The Scions have an airship, which Tataru built. Good grief, that Lala is pulling her weight.

G'raha faking me out with what I expected to be Fancy Dan. Also, stop throwing up death flags for him. I know he's never going to die… at least he's thankful, though.

Nerva seems to still be alive. And is also aligned with Fancy Dan and Zenos?

The stagnant aether thing still seems kinda "what". The writers seem aware of that, too—bringing up the possibility that fixing that stagnation would only make the problem worse, and such. Which in turn reinforces the idea that tempering is the result of man losing the contest of wills against a primal. But all this "stagnating aether" stuff seems like an unnecessary addition in that case. Prior to this concept being introduced, all we knew was that the Echo provided immunity/resistance to tempering, and everyone without it was boned.

Now apparently that's not the case, and with the knowledge that even the Ascians were tempered, I have to ask what makes the Echo so special when it comes to fighting off a primal's will.

Nero is back! And he's being Nero. Bless his soul. And it looks like everything is going, er, okay, I guess? Neat to see a cure for tempering other than "kill them". Maybe there's hope for certain characters in the Save the Queen questline yet.

Was not expecting our quest to visit Matoya to be about making porxies. I guess we have more important matters on our hands than "talk with Crystal Mom". Oh well.

I went into the Relict with Trusts, and the second boss fight is the first time I've ever actually gotten angry at Trusts. Lesson learned: The Scions will lazily sit around, waiting for you to do a certain mechanic for them. Because I recognized its similarity to a mechanic from Don Mheg, I assumed I was supposed to dodge the water spouts instead of stand in them. I feel exceptionally dense because of this failure, but goddamn it guys, I thought you had my back on this!

Limsa Lominsa moving away from piracy is an unexpected, but understandable, development. But wow, with all the crap we've been getting done, it honestly feels like the story is ending. Like we're making our rounds, tying up all the loose ends. Though as someone else stated, the WoL feels a little... superfluous to all this. Like it wouldn't matter in the slightest if we were present or not. Which I guess adds to my feeling that the story is ending. We've reached the point where nobody needs the WoL to personally clean up everyone's messes, and we could retire from adventuring or strike out on our own if we really wanted.

I'm guessing that feeling won't last once Fancy Dan makes his appearance, though. Speaking of faces I want to punch, screw this pirate guy and his smug countenance. It's especially irritating because he seems like he's got a good point, but the writers don't trust me to recognize why he's wrong, so he has to be obviously evil. EDIT: And they have Merlwyb sufficiently lay out the reasons why he's wrong, so again: Why the over the top "evil guy" vibes?

And we're back to trying to cure tempering—this time to secure peace with the Kobolds. This is, at least, a better use of our talents than going to pick up a lightning crystal while G'raha fawns over us from a distance instead of doing it himself.

The solo instance was kind of... okay, I guess. Merlwyb and Mistbeard stole the show, and getting ambushed right near the end was a pretty nice twist, even though as a Tank main I was basically invincible during that portion. And it's interesting to see Titan, one of the less "aggressive" primals, recontextualized as a malicious figure. That his fatherly love for his children is a surface-level lie. That perhaps his nature as a primal—bleeding his warped and possessive aether across the land around him—undercuts the beliefs he ought to embody. It goes without saying that this would hold true for every primal, yes? All the way up to Zodiark and Hydaelyn.

"Unready as we were, what choice had we but to call upon the divine to rid ourselves of your tyranny?" I know this is a plot point going all the way back to A Realm Reborn and 1.0 before that, but when I read that line my thoughts immediately turned to Venat and her followers creating Hydaelyn. It's an odd gut feeling.

Melwyb was always my favorite of the Grand Company leaders, and it's nice to be reminded why. The lady's got balls of steel.

And now I'm at the final quest. I was expecting Fandaniel's appearance into the plot only being in the last quest was an exaggeration, but no. Wow. This has basically been an entire patch dedicated to wrapping up loose ends, with only the last bit of it being dedicated to advancing the plot.

Fancy Dan: With the death of Elidibus, I am free to bring about the Final Days!
Alisaie: You have power beyond mortal comprehension, and you're using it to kill everyone? With magic like that, you could save countless lives!
Fancy Dan: But I don't want to save lives. I want to kill everyone.

He is, quite obviously, hiding his real motivation. There's ways to communicate that your villain just wants to be evil for the sake of it, and literally saying so is arguably not one of them. Not in a serious work, at least. Consider me curious as to where they're going with him.

Or he could just be exactly what he's presenting himself as. But if that's the case, I'll be let down.

G'raha is still confusing the hell out of me with his "my new old young body" stuff. I get the feeling the writers are having fun with this. Honestly, I am not. But he's here to stay, so I just have to get used to it. I don't think I'll ever get over feeling like we murdered young G'raha to stick the Exarch in his body, though.

The towers apparently tempering those into mindless servitude towards Garlemald is... well, that's kind of weird, isn't it? It's been mentioned at some point, I think, that reverence for the Emperor borders on religious in Garlemald, but I wonder if that's actually what's going on here. "Lunar Bahamut" apparently isn't a primal, after all, so what sort of primal is actually being fed by these towers?

Also, it's bizarre that all the towers just... appeared. You'd think some time and effort would be needed to set them up, but I guess not.

Fancy Dan's foppish theatrics do call to mind Kefka. Kefka somewhat notoriously used the power of the Warring Triad to shield himself from harm, then to murder his Emperor. Maybe that'll be the case here, too. But that'd be a pretty inglorious end for Zenos if that's the case.

Speaking of which, post-suicide Zenos still manages to bore me. I've already beaten you thrice, discount Sephiroth. Heck, he's even doing the thing where he engages in ridiculously petty behavior just to get our attention.

So... not terribly enthused with this patch, honestly. We feel superfluous to the events for the most part. It takes entirely too long getting to the point, and ends on a cliffhanger instead of letting us do anything about what's going on. Lyse is very obviously not dead, and we're just going to sit around waiting for 5.5 to drop before we take care of the obviously immediate threat of these towers.

This is our first real outing with G'raha, and as my attitude towards him probably indicates, I don't find his fanboying over us endearing anymore. Maybe it's because I'm just salty that Minfilia was literally erased from existence while he gets to nobly sacrifice his own life and then keep gallivanting about in a fresh body. Maybe I just don't like sycophants, especially when they've shown themselves to have no compunctions against manipulating and lying to me. Or maybe it's because I got sick of characters not dying when they do things that ought to have killed them, and so having a character for whom throwing up death flags has become routine has gotten irritating.

Maybe it's all of them. Regardless, I do not like G'raha Tia.

Eden's Promise:

Ryne and Gaia getting along is adorable. I love these girls. Seems like Gaia got her necklace after all—though she's not wearing it because she doesn't use a player model she doesn't want to lose it.

Gaia learned to drive to surprise Ryne. RIP my fanfic of Gaia chauffeuring Ryne around in the Regalia after the WoL absentmindedly left it at the Crystarium. It involved minors drinking Dwarven beer, so it's probably not a huge loss. Nice of her to actually be contributing, though. Ryne roasting Gaia is unexpected, but cute.

Ryne hosting a festival—reminds me of a story beat from FF8. Quite nice, that. And Gaia lied about a leg cramp. Very 'Laguna' of you, your ladyship.

Complications in the Empty, and life is not returning. The crystal, which previously shone with Ice, is now all Light. It's not quite what I was expecting, but it's still in line with it: "Punishment" for Ryne's failure was deferred to the final wing. Though there's some wiggle room to suggest it may not be Ryne's fault. And sitting around blaming herself wouldn't accomplish anything, anyways.

Gaia's Fairy is being unusually helpful. Nice to see everyone contributing to the brainstorming re: summoning a "darkness primal". And it seems like Gaia legit didn't hear Ryne talking about the festival. The music cut out in an ominous fashion...

The girls working together. So cute! More on this after the fight itself. EDIT: The fight went smoothly, and all the crystal turned into an all-elements popsicle.

Mitron was the fairy. And he's alive! And he's also... Eden? What the heck?

Apparently the colossal screw-up that was the Thirteenth is the true culprit for the First's inevitable Flood of Light. But Ardbert truly was responsible for the event that kicked it off: The Blade of Light used to slay Mitron actually created Eden.

A Blade of Light, thought to destroy an Ascian's soul, actually turned him into a Sin Eater. Would this carry implications for Nabriales, Igeyorhm, and Emet-Selch, then? EDIT: Later bits shoot down this line of thinking. Only Mitron suffered this fate.

Ryne supplies another reason for the Empty struggling: Mitron/Eden has been hogging all the aether for himself. You're semi-off the hook, sweetie.

Gaia is losing her memory. Oh, poor girl. Seems she's taking her amnesia in stride, though.

Getting STRONG implications here that Gaia is the reincarnated Loghrif. Mitron is being a bit too clingy for my tastes, but it's a bit understandable if she's literally his best friend from a previous life...

Laxan Loft is indeed our next battle, and it's a glimpse of the past as well. EDIT: The boss is literally the Shadowkeeper. I guess turning into a giant wolf monster was a temporary setback for her. Also, Mitron and Gaia were the ones who turned her into the wolf monster to begin with. So, um... yeah, Gaia is probably Loghrif.

Mitron is the source of her amnesia. He's gone past "clingy" and into "jealous yandere stalker" territory. Gaia saying that she belongs with her friends, then looking at the WoL at all... thank you, writers.

Mitron briefly becomes sympathetic, then squanders it. But then, we wouldn't have much of a conflict if he was willing to let go of the past, would we?

Ooh, Ascian Prime 2.

Gaia is indeed Loghrif. And her true name... is Gaia, of course. Mitron was the one to give our teen goth the name, after all.

"The task assigned to you eventually fell to Elidibus." ... Gaia was to be Zodiark's heart?

Mitron and Loghrif are the Squall and Rinoa pair, it seems. Right down to the sappy romantic promise. Poor Ryne... but it is neat to see that their love was genuine. Even the Ascians are human, after all.

We see the Echo flashback, but it's pretty reasonable to assume that Ryne just heard his explanation. She doesn't seem to have had an Echo flashback at all. However, given the way Gaia's memory issues have been going, it seems like Ryne really is a reincarnation of Minfilia after all. Which is to say... she's probably gone for good. My heart sinks at the thought.

The third fight, Anamorphosis, is based on Ryne's fears. I feel like I have an idea as to what this will actually be, but... EDIT: I was wrong. It's Griever.

Or rather, a phantom image born of Ryne's fears: Her smothering protectors, Thancred and Ran'jit. Much as Griever was born from Squall mind, in the form symbolizing what he views as strength incarnate. This is a reference done right. Also, OW, the feels with this fight.

Our clear run got down to just me and a Summoner being left alive, and having to survive long enough for a resurrected Healer to pop LB3.

Mitron alludes to the nature of the Final Days in his anger, suggesting that the inability to stay their fears was ultimately what ruined their world. We already knew that their fears were spiraling out of control and giving rise to the Terminus monsters, but it seems that Mitron accepts that the failure was on their end, rather than attributing it to some nebulous "Other" like Lavos/Jenova/The Creator, as some (myself included) previously speculated. Also, he mad.

Another implication from that: What Eden is doing is Creation Magic.

Mitron continues to amp up his clingy behavior, literally shattering Gaia's memories. Also, he wants to consume and compress the entire world's aether into a singular, perfect moment. Mitron is Ultimecia, confirmed.

Wow, already at the final fight. This has not gone as expected, but... Ascian Prime is a bit like Ultimecia's final form, perhaps?

EDIT: In fact, it is. Sort of a mashup between Adel and Ultimecia, one might say. Also, having to protect Gaia's memory of going out on a date with Ryne is... adorably tragic.

Gaia was hiding the necklace up her sleeve. I knew they were good for something. There was an earlier bit where she clutches that sleeve, too—a bit of foreshadowing, I'd say.

Mitron finally lets go, and it seems the FF8-esque promise is between him and Gaia. Also, his true name is Artemis.

This brings us up to three true names: Artemis, Gaia, and Hades. Mitron, Loghrif, and Emet-Selch. Nice to know they're continuing the Greek mythos line with them.

Nice timing with the Empty flourishing with life, just as Gaia and Ryne exit the darkness within her mind. Also nice touch with Ryne cutting through it with Lionheart, Thancred's gunblade. Oh, and Eden being a tree of life is cool symbolism.

Gaia reused the line from her past self's memory with Mitron on Ryne. Very cute.

Gaia and/or the WoL suggests that Gaia can use her powers to travel to the Source someday. Yes, please. Sadly, it seems like she'll have to leave Ryne behind for that.

Gaia wants a Skyslipper. I'd buy her one. I just need to do Titan Savage...

No quest after this, and the Savage Unlock came with a time skip... I guess we skipped over the festival. Boo, I was looking forward to it. Also, Gaia now owns a set of wheels. "Only room for two", though.

Well, I can't say I'm too disappointed. I was really hoping there might be some sliver of chance in Minfilia's return. But it seems like every last nail in her coffin has been hammered home. But even without that, this was a pretty nice story, and it did a good job of paying homage to Final Fantasy 8 without ripping it off or filling it with shameless fanservice for FF8 fans.

And I'm looking forward to Gaia appearing in the future, if she does. Though it seems like Ryne is, as I feared, making her last appearance.

It's also nice to finally nip in the bud the idea that Hydaelyn was responsible for the First's near annihilation. Ardbert screwed up in creating Eden, but he couldn't have known that would happen. In the end, the Ascians are both responsible for the initial threat of the Flood of Light, and its actual appearance into the world.

EDIT: A shower thought: Mitron is almost a dead ringer for Seifer Almasy, who in FF8 was Rinoa's ex-boyfriend. Mitron is Gaia's ex-boyfriend from another life. Wow.

Sorrow of Werlyt:

Gaius and pals suggest that Alphonse took Emerald Weapon to Eorzea to consume primals. Primals don't get summoned without cause, implying that—well, I've hammered on about this quite a bit, haven't I?

Cid proposes an alternative that seems more reasonable, however: They needed to complete the Weapon's construction.

A nice, sensible explanation for why we aren't using the G-Warrior. Love the WoL's reaction to that.

Val doesn't like submarines. Claustrophobia, a fear of deep water, or both?

The game ported us all the way to the next location, saving me from having to make the port to Horizon and fly there. While typing this, I almost wrote "Return to the Waking Sands"—I guess I did anyways—and had a bit of a chuckle. I wouldn't have minded, though.

EDIT: Finished the fight. Gaius as the simulated pilot was a neat twist. The simulated environment, which Ruby shared and Sapphire did not, seems like a feature rather than happenstance. I wonder why.

Echo flashback! Allie had no idea about Oversoul, which makes sense. But the fact that they're after primals is now confirmed. My sympathy for them extends only to their use of the Oversoul system and Valens' abuse.

It's interesting to see how the story is handling their hypocrisy, though. With Misija, she drops all pretense of being a decent person, which is... odd, but considering that she's lashing out at people picking up the legacy of her ancestor's murderers, it's also understandable. Her treatment of Mikoto... is less understandable.

Here, we have young adults wishing to create a world where they're free of persecution. Yet to do so, they have been knowingly persecuting "lesser" races all across Ilsabard and Eorzea. And it doesn't even register in their minds that they're doing it. Is this intentional, or the result of writing a story without consideration for its implications?

The brothers come across as incredibly patronizing towards Allie. It reminds me of the way Thancred acted around Ryne before Crossroads, honestly.

Allie is with us now, and Valens had been abusing her. Poor girl.

Gaius being wholly ignorant to the way Garleans behave towards "savages" is a complete farce. A man as long in the tooth as he, and with such a storied career in their army, could not possibly be this naïve. But apparently he is.

Severa is an outcast in her own homeland, and was among the soldiers we slaughtered on our way through Ala Mhigo. We might well have killed many of her friends and friendly acquaintances, and due to her desertion she's probably Kill on Sight in Garlean territory. Is it odd that I feel more sympathy for her than all of Gaius's children sans Allie?

The VIIth Legion lore is nice to know. Valens reminds me of the likes of Shinra Inc.'s higher ups, specifically Scarlet, Heidegger, and Hojo. Especially Hojo, what with his jealousy over a man in the same line of work. Even his petty, spiteful attitude leans on that comparison.

Gaius being all about "meritocracy, but only if you serve me/my nation" is pretty consistent, if nothing else. Of course, as we've seen, foreigners aren't afforded the same courtesy. They exist to be saved from their savagery or crushed under the Garlean war machine.

"You would give your lives for a future you may not live to see..." I see what they're doing here. Comparing Gaius's children to Ryne and Gaia. Gaius "mirroring" the WoL in their respective relationships. Which is, possibly, a subtle nod to the implication that the WoL is more a parent to Ryne than Thancred was. And we were only with her for a scant few weeks at most.

Allie being Diamond Weapon's pilot is something I anticipated the moment she was introduced from the start of this storyline. I'm intrigued to see how she'll go about it under present circumstances. I'd say I'm worried for her, but like I said a thousand thousand times...

You know how Gaius freaked out over how destructive Ultima was, and his frustration when he realized Lahabrea could steal control of the Ultima Weapon from him to unleash it? Y'know how all of the Weapon fights thus far have had them regularly use Optimized Ultima as part of their arsenal? Just... some food for thought, I suppose.

Allie is definitely dead-set on becoming the pilot for Diamond Weapon... you know what would be a shocking twist, though? Gaius doing it. Take it and fight the WoL, so that Allie and Alphonse don't have to die. But there's nothing particularly compelling him to do so when he could destroy it instead—so I doubt this would be the way the story unfolds.

Valens has a face not even a mother could love. Definitely getting Hojo vibes from his attitude. And of course he's not just abusing children, but teaching them to abuse others. If Gaius is a morally grey reflection of the WoL, then this guy is pitch black.

The kid's smile. Poor child...

Zenos being the simulated pilot is, well, actually a little surprising. Zenos never struck me as the sort to give a damn about anyone else (other than the WoL, and only once they began to measure up to him), so why would he bother to let his combat data be recorded? I believe it's been said that his backstory is exclusive to one of the lore books, or something to that effect, but perhaps this is a glimmer of hope that there's some depth to him. Or maybe it just feeds into his "I want the world to crap out something equal to me so I can fight it" schtick.

So... Allie is going to get into the cockpit and immediately be overridden by Zenos, it looks like. She'll never have any hope of realizing her dream, and she doesn't even realize it.

And the scenes just keep coming! Valens going back on his word is par for the course for absolute scum. Forcing his wards and the family/soon to be victims to watch is just diarrhea icing on the sewage cake.

They're working out the kinks with this one, so they don't have a repeat of Ruby Weapon. Just like they did with Sapphire and Emerald. Oh yes, this horror of technology is the gift that keeps on giving. The core popping open and leaking fluid and so on bit reminds me of Nibelheim Reactor with all of the monsters in pods, too.

Doing the EX Unlock quest before I continue. Loving the WoL's dismayed reaction to the man gushing over Gaius and the Emerald Weapon.

The follow-up quest with Avilina is... nice. I appreciate it. It does a good bit of legwork in humanizing Milisandia, who was taken out of the plot before we even got to see her face. And it's nice to see a face in the XIVth Legion that isn't ride or die for Garlemald.

Livia confirmed to be yandere for Gaius. As much as I enjoy the character archetype, I have to say out of all of Gaius's children I only truly hate Livia. I don't think it's hard to imagine why.

Cape Westwind Man still confirmed for the absolute best Garlemald has ever produced. He and Yotsuyu are the only two high-ranking Garleans I've ever felt bad about killing, and while Yotsuyu's case would require some explaining, I don't think it's particularly controversial to say Cape Westwind Man will be missed. A pity I can't remember how to spell his name.

Avilina worked on the Ultima Weapon, just like Valens (and Nero). Can we get this girl over to Nero, perhaps? He might appreciate a competent assistant, and she could probably help him keep his moral compass on point. Not that he's had much trouble with that since the Crystal Tower raid, try as he might to appear otherwise.

And she's going to help enhance the G-Warrior. I think I have a crush on this girl, lol. Wish I could've had her and Allie meet up, though. They could stand to rekindle their friendship, and perhaps in doing so Allie might rethink her plan. But oh well.

The Emerald Weapon doc has no mention of what sort of powers it got from primals, implying that they never got around to hunting down any. A little less blood on their hands, but not by much.

Overall, I enjoyed this far more than I was expecting to. Valens is any number of words I can't say without getting banned, and I'm not a fan of Gaius "I didn't know Garlemald was evil!" Baelsar being this naive. But it does seem like they're trying to redeem him, and I suppose it's better to be stupid than evil. His children are either intentional hypocrites, in which case I'm expecting this to come up in the finale, or unintentionally, in which case boo on the writers. But all in all, this wasn't even half-bad. Maybe I just have more of a taste for Gundam-esque war stories than "Alisaie and G'raha's Excellent Adventure, with special guest camera man the Warrior of Light". But I find it funny just how radically different the tone and themes are between Werlyt and Eden... and yet I found both far more enjoyable than the MSQ.

Role Quest Extension:

This may be the first time the WoL has explicitly drank alcohol since Heavensward. And it's in the company of friends. Very touching scene all around.

Some of these dialogue options are hilarious. I prefer to play things strait-laced, but still...

We actually used a linkpearl! For how seldom they've come up in the past few years, I was worried the writers might have forgotten them.

Urianger speculates that persisting as a soul without a body would prove fatal eventually. It makes sense, since they seem to get by just as well without physical bodies (Hades fight, for example).

… and then he up and states we'll have to help Unukalhai with getting a body. Um, Urianger, they don't exactly grow on trees. Syrcus Tower cloning tech might help, maybe? EDIT: This doesn't come up again, but it's something to keep in mind for the future.

"Best not tell anyone else about this, lest you suddenly find yourself everyone's first choice in inter-world ferry services." - Unukalhai's Spirit Vessel.

Nice to see they retained the "primal-infused auracite" bit from the Warring Triad questline. I've got to wonder how, if at all, that'll tie into Eden's Promise. We do seem to be going to the Void, after all... EDIT: It doesn't tie in at all. The locations we go to are basically akin to pocket dimensions, rather than actual locations.

Unukalhai is hopeful that the Thirteenth can be saved. Cylva is surprised we've actually been there. And Beq Lugg wants to see it for themself. Oh boy, this is going places!

Taynor feels that Unukalhai is familiar to him, like an old friend. The cutscene has a close-up of their eyes, too, and their eye color appears to be the same shade of purple...

Beq Lugg has a linkpearl? Or maybe telepathy. Or maybe I missed the ring-ring.

It's a little underwhelming that the battle music kicks in during these cutscenes, only to cut out due to the fights being the usual "stand in the purple circle to spawn the mob" event. Oh well.

Nice little ray of hope for the Thirteenth/the Void, and possibly a plot hook for a future expansion. Glad to see that everyone champing at the bit to devour Unukalhai's soul didn't get their wish granted—if anything, there seems to be some implication that he and Taynor are reflections of each other. Or perhaps Nyelbert. Who can say?

YorHa:

So right off the bat, we offer some good words of encouragement to Konogg. I like to imagine the WoL would do the same for a lot of other people—particularly certain antagonists.

The other dwarves' anger is understandable, though misplaced. And then they made Konogg cry. Ordinarily it doesn't rain in the desert, and yet my ceiling is leaking for some reason...

Gods, my WoL is playing mom to another kid now. How many does that make? Not that I'm complaining. I appreciate it, in fact.

That was a nice scene at the top of the ladder. Loved the music. The scene at Stilltide was nice, too. And I get to keep being his mom! And he got crapped on pretty hard, and actually needs me to be his mom. Poor boy...

Oh gods, she was pregnant. Potential miscarriage, in my FFXIV? Actually kind of surprised by that. And re-entering the Puppets' Bunker... it always struck me as odd that the wreckage would still be on fire after however long this place has been here. It's not as if it recently crashed, right? Someone would've noticed that, for sure.

As an aside, my trip through the Puppets' Bunk had me finding one of the data boxes I missed before, and I have to say... these do a lot more to flesh out 2P than her in-the-flesh appearances. It's a shame she's dead now.

And there's a giant Drakengard reference in the Alien Ship now, for some reason. Gotta say, with how little has actually been explored as to how all of this is here, I'm not sure how wise it is to then introduce something from Drakengard without explanation too. Oh, Echo flashback time.

It's interesting to see that Konogg was the reckless one in the past, with Anogg being the cautious one. And then Anogg died, and was revived as... well, I've seen what this is a reference to. That's not Anogg. That's a monster. The chittering, alien voice lends credence to that, too. At least she didn't stab Konogg through the chest with her scorpion tail, then go wide-eyed and scream to the heavens.

We are still playing mom to Konogg. Thank you, Yoko Taro.

2B knows what's going on, perhaps?

… and then I abandoned the quest to try and see an alternate dialogue choice, only to realize it's one long quest and I have to do it all over again. But that's okay, I'm actually enjoying it. Lesson learned, though: Just use the Unending Journey for that.

While I repeat the quest, I feel like this is a good time to speak my mind on this. When the Copied Factory first launched, I defended the writing relying heavily on mysteries as being the result of us only seeing Act I of a three act story. And when the Puppets' Bunker went live and introduced a ton more mysteries, cut a few short without really resolving them, and then ended on a cliffhanger... I was pretty negative about it, writing the whole raid off as shameless fanservice.

But going through this quest and reflecting back on the rest, I'm starting to see this in a similar light to Eden. Perhaps it leans more heavily on references to Yoko Taro's other works than Eden did to Final Fantasy VIII, but it seems to me that this is less a "Nier Automata meets FFXIV" questline and more an original story, focused on Anogg and Konogg.

That's not to say I don't want to find out why all the Nier/Drakengard stuff is here. But it matters less to me now, and I find myself enjoying this story again. It's also sweet to see Konogg's development, moving away from his and his sister's unashamed exploiting of our talents towards a softer, kinder, and more appreciative attitude. So... basically FFXIV in a nutshell one might say.

Turns out I was basically at the end, and there's not much more to say. Anogg may be dead, and there's an android/monster wearing her face out there. But the funny thing is, we never knew the real Anogg to begin with if that's the case. And the Anogg we knew was considerably more "human" than what one would expect to pop out of a Seed of Resurrection (that's what they're called, I think). It's given me something to think about, and I note with some degree of amusement that this is the second time we've had a character with this sort of background. Yet I find myself intrigued by Anogg's tale, whereas I only felt annoyance by the retroactive continuity that was "the real Yda is dead, and you only ever knew Lyse".

Parking on the first page, as is custom.

Haven't been playing much lately, and almost forgot to farm Yo-kai medallions before patch. In my defense, I was sucked into Yo-kai Gakuen Y. Working as intended?


MSQ:

Ah, the good old post-climax shenanigans patch. How I've missed you.

G'raha's been a Scion for a full five minutes, and he's already suggesting going to Azys Lla to look for a cure to tempering. That's ma boy. Now we just need an excuse to loop in House Darnus and the last of the Allagan dominoes will have fallen.

I do second the thing about the death flags, though. Good god, how many close-up, voiced-over, "thank you" smiles does one patch need? He's precious, we get it. Probably actually too popular to kill by now, but still. It's not good for my heart...

Fun FFIII note: Owen is the father of Desch, and the "Tower of Owen" is where Desch's original amnesia -> remembrance -> "this is my destiny" sacrifice arc took place. (Y'know, the whole routine that G'raha copied back in 2.X. He's never going to live that one down, is he?) FFXIV's Owen is not a Miqo'te, so probably not XIV!Desch's father, so it seems more like they were using the name just for das funsies. There's still room for an Aria and an Alus. I'm counting on you guys!

It was not lost on me that all of this happened right before the IIIrd legion was put into play. Pretty sure this one was also just for das funsies, but it worked. As the old adage goes: "I lol'd."

Y'shtola as a recovering chuunibyou schoolgirl is also comic gold. The extra 10 minutes of duty time taking her through the Relict was well worth it.

Towers are apparently not Mhachi, though I still wonder how anyone could have identified them as Garlean based on a visual examination. I also didn't hear that declaration in the JP script, but I may have to listen through again.

Rest played out about as good as can be hoped. Nice to see the beginnings of closure in Limsa after 10 real-time years of endless conflict. I don't take other characters' death flags that seriously anymore, but that's okay. We're going all-in on the old-school shounen manga enthusiasm, and honestly, it's 2020. That stuff's balm for the soul.

Werlyt:

This entire storyline just feels empty to me. It's basically all the things I hate about Gundam and its imitators, down to the "only giving characters focus immediately before and/or after they are killed" routine. It's been a slow moving train wreck, boldly careening where everyone has already gone before. Frankly, what's the point?

The only slight deviation from formula so far being that they killed a female pilot first, just to subvert the usual pattern of "all the men die because they simply can't be saved, but of course the one female lives because she's still 'pure.'" (Which is about on the same level as "all the women die so the men can feel sad/angry before they die heroically." The women involved are just props either way.)

All those pilots you didn't want to kill? Guess what, they also suffered horribly before you killed them and were mentally broken to the point of sugar-coating suicide as their only escape. My imagination had already filled in those blanks just fine, but thanks for the graphic depiction all the same. There is literally no amount of catharsis that could make this okay.

I really don't have much to say that's constructive. I sure am glad it's not MSQ, I guess. There's an extra quest after the boss, but I've had my fill of tragedy porn for one patch.

Eden's Promise:

What. A. Ride. In the spirit of things, I'm not even going to bother organizing my thoughts into any kind of coherent order.

The stakes for this series were all over the place. The storytelling, the pacing, the bizarre (possibly production-related) narrative choice of leaving the focal character out until the second act. FFXIV hasn't been this crazy and experimental since Shadows of Mhach. It has that "just do whatever" attitude of the Sakaguchi era, so I'm kind of a fan, all things considered. It'll definitely be better played through as one story.

Loved Griever!Thancred, did not love the missed opportunity for "Maybe I'm a Lion" after a phase change. Last boss theme had strong Shinryu vibes, but if it was a remix of something I couldn't place it. It'll come to me, maybe.

What even was that thing, though? Definitely reminiscent of Nomura's early work as monster artist for FF5, though, so again, I'm kind of a fan, whatever it was supposed to be. Also, the stock and junction system was cool.

Seems like this is where all the lore was hiding. Moose wanted a friendly Ascian? Meet Lohgrif. AKA Gaia. Who is also not a fanatical Zodiark worshiper, so this entire situation strongly indicates that only the Unsundered are tempered, and the reincarnates are able to act independently of Zodiark's will. Which indirectly explains Fandaniel. 6.0 is going to be wild.

And that ending. I'm not sure precisely how much of the storyboard for FF8's ending FMV they ripped off, but it was a lot. Cool to see that same editing in a real-time cutscene. That's probably the best possible homage to a game that was all about pushing the limits of available technology.

Kinda disappointed we missed the festival, after that much buildup. I was expecting just a little more closure to what will quite possibly be the last appearance of Ryne and Gaia for some time. Though perhaps that just means we'll see more of them soon.

Just a funny note

MSQ humor
Looks like Cid's bitcoin mining operation failed

Kobolds lives matter!


On a more serious note, not sure I like the direction of Fan and Zenos... (I'm introduced to Lunar Bahamut)


The Sultana's face when greeted with a Porxie, looked more like a girl who got the pony she always wanted


Really hoping for something more cool after this, I'm actually feeling rather let down

Some thoughts on what I've done so far:

Werlyt

Good grief. They really are going all out in trying to make Valens the most awful, irredeemable villain ever. The way he got that reluctant Xaela boy to help with torturing Alphonse using positive reinforcement was genuinely disturbing.

Was not expecting Gaius himself to be the oversoul subject for Emerald...but choosing Zenos of all people for Diamond's oversoul is a disaster waiting to happen. It was also nice to finally learn what the orphans were planning, but it seems insanely short-sighted as it revolves entirely around Valens just allowing them to go on a joyride in his ultimate creation when he harbors little respect or trust in any of them.

I really hope Allie does manage to make it out of this whole mess alive as her brother wishes...though it would not surprise me if both of them end up dead as the final push that makes Gaius decide to work with us long term to bring about the Empire he desires. Alternatively, considering how personal Valens' grudge towards Gaius is, he might just end up deciding to take matters into his own hands and pilot Diamond himself after realizing how unreliable his conscripts have been.

Eden

It was nice to finally get some clear confirmation that the destroyed Ascians are only dead in the conventional sense and simply return to the Lifestream to eventually be reborn as they should, but the fact that their peers can still influence them regardless is a touch worrying.

I was not expecting that to be the case for Gaia, nor for Mitron to have somehow survived his run in with Ardbert and company; much less as Eden. I'm glad she got a happy end despite her past life.

Makes me wonder what's gonna happen when Emet Selch is eventually reborn, considering that he's unsundered and what not.

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

MSQ

reframe of tempering as having similarities to the sin eaters in having the soul of the tempered individual more stagnant/passive. (And an Allagan counterpart for the imprecise Eorzean term at that!) Well, that sure makes a solution slightly easier. My theory since we talked about how Egi work was that the solution would involve isolating the "invading waveform" and "drowning it out" by "boosting the original waveform of the individual over it" until it was drowned out. The magnetic tape metaphor worked well for this.

Jeez, I may have been pretty close with the tempering cause/cure. Mixing metaphors, of course; not like Hydaelyn has a lot of magnetic tape.

If we're tempered by Hydalin, we shift to light, and by definition we should lose volition even worse, because we should be very static indeed, and somehow we arn't.
Those taken by Z, how would that even work? They can't be both light shifted AND dark shifted. They can't be bound by darkness, and yet also static, to be that dark they couldn't have that light.

Does this mean that those taken by Z are the only ones who are tempered, but retain free will?

... anyway, that's all theory crafting...

The most important bit got lightly glossed over. The ancient Allagans had the ability to PREVENT TEMPERING. They researched it at great cost, and used it. THIS is a secret I want found and spread. What good is it to slowly cure a few case of tempering if folks can be turned right back the next time a primal shows up for a few seconds?

And a thought on why the Allag didn't want to invest in curing primals. As the primals convert worship into aethir, and certain works of the Allag take aether from primals (who are being worshiped by tempered who are in stasis), they kind of want to keep the fuel source?

Apparently there has to be at least 10 characters outside of the spoiler tags.

MSQ thoughts

They really weren't kidding about the story's pace kicking into higher gear suddenly what with making literally the last quest in the entire chain where Fandaniel finally shows his face.

Was not expecting that primal to be Lunar Bahamut (In reference to the optional boss from the remakes of FFIV), and it seems like there's going to be more of those moon-powered knockoffs where that one came from. I don't doubt that Zodiark is somehow involved with their creation considering that those strange towers seem to be sending energy/aether up into the sky, and if they're somehow tempering anyone who gets near them, it's just providing all the more fuel to create primals with.

I also did enjoy getting to see more of the political workings in Limsa as it's received decidedly less attention then the other city states, and with a cure for tempering finally found, the future definitely will be brighter once the shenanigans in Garlemald are dealt with.

Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

MSQ spoilerinos

I hope there is more to Fandaniel's plan... he seems a bit... shallow

Considering how he casually dropped a name that we're wholly unfamiliar with (Seemingly of some manner of organization separate from the Convocation), there has to be something bigger going on.

Wild theory has me thinking said individuals could very well have been the ones responsible for the "noise" that kicked off the Final Days in the first place, and I'm having doubts about Zenos even being our final antagonist/boss now..

Eden's Promise

I was not surprised when Mitron came out. It's always Ascians. I WAS surprised when Gaia was revealed as Loghrif, and it is fitting that the final boss not only uses the Draw and Junction mechanics from FF8, but also uses the Primals we summoned in The First. Plus, we have a bigger understanding of what caused the Flood of Light and what Eden even is.

Gotta say, the transformed corpse of an Ascian was NOT my guess, but guess it's fitting with his summoning capabilities.

Also, that cutscene fully awakening The Empty... What a send-off to 8, too, with Ryne in the place of Squall, gunblade and all.

Rainbow Crystal is also nice to look at and thematically appropriate. Plus, Gaia can MAYBE cross shards now, so THAT'LL be interesting.

Ascian tangent but with Eden spoilers

So now that we have Mitron and Loghrif (sorta) dealt with, it brings our Ascian casualties to: Lahabrea, Igeyorhm, Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Nabriales, Emmerololth (kinda sorta), Mitron (to be reborn), and Loghrif (already reborn and "converted"). That's 8 out of 13, so we're missing 5: Fandaniel (to be killed 6.0, probably), Altima (who I KNOW has already shown up but damn if I can remember anything about her), Pashtarot, Deudalaphon, and Halmarut. IF 6.0/.x will be the end of the Ascian plot, we have 5 more to off ourselves or be offed offscreen like ol' Eureka there.