Developers : Healer design mentality needs to change

[tdb]

1. There is a limit to the number of abilities they want to have, so more DPS abilities would take the place of some healing abilities.

I would happily trade Cure 1 and Fluid Aura for a couple extra DPS buttons. Cure 1 could be made to upgrade into Cure 2, and Fluid Aura can probably be repurposed as a DPS ability (it's tied to a quest so might not be possible to just delete it). Medica 1 is fairly useless too at later levels because of Assize and and Afflatus Rapture.

For AST the abilities to toss are Benefic 1 and Undraw. Benefic 1 can get the upgrade treatment, and Undraw can be deleted since I don't think anything references it. Helios is a little harder to let go since AST has fewer other AoE options, but I wouldn't miss it too much.

I haven't played SCH in this expansion so I'm not sure what are the useless buttons there.

2. As I said before, depending on how these DPS abilities work together, it might feel bad to interrupt them to heal. It would be a similar reason to why they remove cleric and tank's DPS stances.

GNB can execute Gnashing Fang combo without interrupting Keen Edge combo. DNC can execute dances without interrupting combo. Same with NIN's ninjitsu. And many of MCH's attacks. There's plenty of precedent of non-combo-breaking abilities, so the same could be applied here (as long as you don't abandon the DPS combo for too long - but if you do need to do enough heals back-to-back that the combo is abandoned, then the heals were probably more important anyway).

[Nabril]

Sometimes I wonder if they should just scrap healers and make everybody use potions / food to heal up. Just make the existing healers 3 new damage and its over because I don't think there ever going to get healing right at this point. If they really want to have some kind of healerish job, then give the 3 new dps jobs a healing aura that will slowly regen people over time.

So you're going to sit down in the middle of a fight and eat a bowl of soup? How's that going to work? You think the entire fight is just going to be nothing but avoidable damage? That would be terrible! Savage would be nothing but movement oriented mechanics and one wrong move by anyone and it's a wipe. "Oh, but it's like that now" No it's not. Not like it would be if we had no healers. No one could get hurt- no one could misstep- no one could mess up in the slightest and you'd have to continuously do max DPS while performing the greatest waltz of all time because healing spells would no longer exist.

No thanks!

[Nabril]

I would happily trade Cure 1 and Fluid Aura for a couple extra DPS buttons. Cure 1 could be made to upgrade into Cure 2, and Fluid Aura can probably be repurposed as a DPS ability (it's tied to a quest so might not be possible to just delete it). Medica 1 is fairly useless too at later levels because of Assize and and Afflatus Rapture.

For AST the abilities to toss are Benefic 1 and Undraw. Benefic 1 can get the upgrade treatment, and Undraw can be deleted since I don't think anything references it. Helios is a little harder to let go since AST has fewer other AoE options, but I wouldn't miss it too much.

I haven't played SCH in this expansion so I'm not sure what are the useless buttons there.


GNB can execute Gnashing Fang combo without interrupting Keen Edge combo. DNC can execute dances without interrupting combo. Same with NIN's ninjitsu. And many of MCH's attacks. There's plenty of precedent of non-combo-breaking abilities, so the same could be applied here (as long as you don't abandon the DPS combo for too long - but if you do need to do enough heals back-to-back that the combo is abandoned, then the heals were probably more important anyway).

Sounds like this game needs more Raid-Wide damage. Healers in this thread are just way too bored.

[Vahlnir]

Sounds like this game needs more Raid-Wide damage. Healers in this thread are just way too bored.

I think most were content with how things were, they just don't like having nothing engaging to do when they don't have to heal. And that is completely understandable. Mass pulls in dungeons are about as exciting as it gets, and I try my best to keep my healers entertained. lol

[Saefinn]

I think most were content with how things were, they just don't like having nothing engaging to do when they don't have to heal. And that is completely understandable. Mass pulls in dungeons are about as exciting as it gets, and I try my best to keep my healers entertained. lol

Pretty much.

And to add, if you're responsible and a BLM and know we're not too occupied. Go ahead, stand in that AoE, save your leylines. :P I commed a BLM a couple of weeks ago I spotted doing exactly that.

[Yeol]

What do healers do the majority of their time? 80% DPSing & 20% healing.

80% of their time they are playing like a level 4 healer, 1 button spam & refresh dot. While their healing kit grows as they reach max level, they tend to drop GCD heals in favor of GCD damage spells & weave oGCD heals/or Instant GCD heals. This is all good except for the level 4 damage rotation. Which makes the role boring.

The fix is one of two:
Either make the healers spend 80% of their time healing and 20% DPSing by redesigning encounters fit for that.
or fix their role/job kit to have proper damage rotation and make it interactive with their healing kit as they level up.

[linayar]

In counter to this.

...

Ok, I understand now. You just want more variety of independent DPS abilities rather than actual DPS combos. I guess that's workable, though I wonder how that would work in practice.

On the one hand, you have healers who don't like to deal damage. Would having more DPS abilities have a bigger negative impact on the party's total DPS requirement when these same players still won't use them?

On the other hand, you have healers who only like to deal damage. Would having more DPS abilities make them heal even less? (I actually had this experience on yesterday's trial where I was tanking Zurvan normal and no one was dying and yet the two healers can't seem to keep me (or the other tank on one occasion) alive and I've used all my CDs.)

In the end, will the dev trust the wider healer community to handle more DPS abilities? Maybe or maybe not it seems.

GNB can execute Gnashing Fang combo without interrupting Keen Edge combo. DNC can execute dances without interrupting combo. Same with NIN's ninjitsu. And many of MCH's attacks. There's plenty of precedent of non-combo-breaking abilities, so the same could be applied here (as long as you don't abandon the DPS combo for too long - but if you do need to do enough heals back-to-back that the combo is abandoned, then the heals were probably more important anyway).

Indeed, but will people end up complaining about healers who don't know when to interrupt their DPS combo for a much needed heal or even for healers who don't even do their combos and thus losing out on DPS?

[Packetdancer]

The only way the design for healers will ever change from what it is is if they change the way damage is dished out during encounters.

I feel a little like they might actually have been listening when people say "if you want healers to heal, give them more things they have to heal" and taking some steps in that direction with this patch; I find Emerald Weapon EX has mechanics that—while not all that complicated—do hit with a little more damage than I'd expected to see... and the autoattacks the main tank takes can seemingly chomp off enough HP in places to almost qualify as mini-tankbusters, which ain't something to sneeze at.

And someone I know commented with regards to E9S (in a mock-haunted tone) "There's nothing in here that isn't a tankbuster or a raid-wide. Nothing."

Truthfully, I'm really enjoying this patch right now because it feels like I can't solely disengage brain and rely on "yeah so I'll have this instant heal or oGCD heal available to me in another 6 seconds, and we can skate until then and just keep damaging" because if I wait that six seconds there's a chance someone is going to be dead. And yeah, some of that is due to going from people outgearing the content (in 5.3) because they have i500 gear to a scenario where i500 gear is the baseline that a fight is balanced for... but even taking that into account, it's still a bit more damage than I'd expect.

Is it wrong that I really sort of hope they keep that up?

I would happily trade Cure 1 and Fluid Aura for a couple extra DPS buttons.

*waves her "Turn Fluid Aura into an interrupt so that it's useful and I don't have to sit and watch helplessly when people fail, Yet Again, to interrupt the paralysis cast in Puppets' Bunker" sign around a bit more*

[Enla]

I think most were content with how things were, they just don't like having nothing engaging to do when they don't have to heal. And that is completely understandable. Mass pulls in dungeons are about as exciting as it gets, and I try my best to keep my healers entertained. lol

Max pulls and 24 mans that go sideways are basically what I live for sometimes in this game.

[Nabril]

I think most were content with how things were, they just don't like having nothing engaging to do when they don't have to heal. And that is completely understandable. Mass pulls in dungeons are about as exciting as it gets, and I try my best to keep my healers entertained. lol

That's like saying that DPS get bored during phases when they don't have to fight to DPS while dodging ground AoE.