Developers : Healer design mentality needs to change

[tdb]

damage boosts for full healed parties would merely open up more healer abuse by parsers who refuse to dodge out of aoes.

Besides the vuln up lasting over a minute, make getting hit by an avoidable attack also give a 30% damage down for 10 seconds. You'd lose more than an entire GCD's worth of damage if you get hit. That should incentivize even the turret mages to get out of the way.

[Laphicet]

Besides the vuln up lasting over a minute, make getting hit by an avoidable attack also give a 30% damage down for 10 seconds. You'd lose more than an entire GCD's worth of damage if you get hit. That should incentivize even the turret mages to get out of the way.

What's funny is that Seat of Sacrifice EX does exactly this, if you get hit by certain avoidable AOE you get a vuln up and a brief stack of 50% damage down, that can stack twice for a full 100% damage down.

[ItMe]

That's why you take the time to analyze a fight and see where to put which heal to get the most benefit out of it, it's basically where the last resemblance of a skill ceiling is.


In over 90% of the content you do not need to intuitively see how you're supposed to use them, you just press any healing oGCD and you wil be fine.

No, I mean I feel we have more abilities than we need. Even with planning I struggle to see where it's all supposed to go and why this one over that one.

[Morningstar1337]

To add, the other roles can potentially take the healing load off the healer. RDM's flavor requires it in fact (though it also requires it to be limited), and SNM, PLD, DNC, DRK, SAM, GNB and WAR have Raise or potent (self-)healing options. Even melee have Second Wind and Bloodbath.

For shields Tanks obv have more of that, but BLM also has Manawall, NIN has Shadeshift, MNK has Riddle of Earth (nerfed as that is). and SNM has Titan's stoneskin.

All of this and Healers having attacks at all means that every role has little bit of the rest. Now this is by design for the Solo experience, but it also means that this self sufficiency opens out ways for the Healers to stave off having to heal as much as possible.

Which means that if the devs really want to make pure healers, they have to scrutinize their decisions with the quest design since ARR and the other roles. And that they would have to remove turn DPS into Glass Cannons, Remove damage form all Tank attacks (effectively making them the equivalent of showboating attention hogs) and obviously remove damage spells from the Healer kit. And from there change the quests (and Leves/FATEs) so that people can still clear them without having to deal damage for Tanks and Healers or survive the encounters as a DPS (prolly by adding NPC allies)

[Vickii]

That MCH dps who jumps into savage is equally able to ruin a pull as a badly as a healer can. So they repeatedly fail mechanics causing the healers to have to raise constantly, losing MP and losing party dps. Or the MCH repeatedly wipes the group due to punishing one shot mechanics (like failing to pick up orbs or hitting their spike on E5s, for example), or the MCH has no clue about their rotation and can barely produce the DPS to beat enrage, which is particularly tight at minimum ilevel.

Dumbing down healer rotations isn’t a solution to the problem. It’s about practice and knowing your job.

The MCH is going to stop the group beating an enrage and it might make it harder on other people. But it doesn’t just kill the run in the way bad healers do. You can let him die and keep progressing as 7.

Where as if 2 healers die at the first mechanic and it’s game over. There’s no real comparison here, healers are more integral to the game and need to be at a higher standard. And too many of them are not good enough now, let alone with more complicated rotations.

[Semirhage]

And too many of them are not good enough now, let alone with more complicated rotations.

Making the healer role so boring you want to gouge your eyes out only encourages people who know what they're doing to bail. It also attracts the sort of player who will eat mechanics and die. It's a cycle that feeds itself.

[Vahlnir]

Making the healer role so boring you want to gouge your eyes out only encourages people who know what they're doing to bail. It also attracts the sort of player who will eat mechanics and die. It's a cycle that feeds itself.

Yeah, since Shadowbringers launched I have noticed an overall decline in quality healers. There's still plenty out there, don't get me wrong, but this "ease of access" really took its toll on the role. Tanks? Not so much. If anything they are thriving right now. But I know someone who mained a healer for years and switched to MCH with Shadowbringers. They loved AST, but with the complexity gone, the game has lost another quality healer. Sadly, they are far from alone.

[Saefinn]

Yeah, since Shadowbringers launched I have noticed an overall decline in quality healers. There's still plenty out there, don't get me wrong, but this "ease of access" really took its toll on the role. Tanks? Not so much. If anything they are thriving right now. But I know someone who mained a healer for years and switched to MCH with Shadowbringers. They loved AST, but with the complexity gone, the game has lost another quality healer. Sadly, they are far from alone.

I mean, I've been disincentivised from healing and I'm a career healer. I've mained a healer in every MMO I've played. I love healing. But my joy for it in this game has dwindled. So rather than punish myself playing the role I love, for the most part, I end up playing a different role. I want to go back to maining a healer and have tried enjoying it and there's only very limited content where I can. And I know there's people who feel the same way. I've had a WHM co-healer since ARR, she mains MCH now.

And really it just boils down to, once you're an experienced enough of a healer, it becomes dull to play, unless you're somebody who doesn't mind spamming 1 or 2 buttons.

The MCH is going to stop the group beating an enrage and it might make it harder on other people. But it doesn’t just kill the run in the way bad healers do. You can let him die and keep progressing as 7.

Where as if 2 healers die at the first mechanic and it’s game over. There’s no real comparison here, healers are more integral to the game and need to be at a higher standard. And too many of them are not good enough now, let alone with more complicated rotations.

With our super dull basic DPS rotations now what you're describing is still an issue. I still see rant threads on these forums appear about healers who DPS. Spamming Broil or Glare and having lots of oGCD heals is about as dumbed down as you're going to get.

Maybe complexity isn't the issue.

But let's break it down. This game measures performance based on how much DPS contribution you offer to the group. This is because of DPS checks, this is because of zerg mechanics, this is because of enrage timers, this is because of the ability to skip certain mechanics or to move to the next phase to avoid repeat mechanics.
This means it is better for each job, regardless of role, that they learn to contribute as much DPS as they can.

What does this mean for healer players? Of course it means they'll try to contribute DPS.
Any new healer will likely be told they need to DPS.
Healers in dungeons who aren't DPSing will be told they need to DPS.
Those healers will try to learn to juggle healing and DPS.
This mean the healer might:
- Misjudge how quickly somebody's health is dropped before they heal them
- They tunnel vision into what they're doing and miss their cue to heal
- They're not quick enough to react to their cue.
- They overthink it

This also applies to well experienced healers, because those healers will be trying to keep their DPS up as high as possible as good practice. This means they will let your health drop low on purpose to optimise their healing. That means they too might make mistakes, because they might misjudge a mechanic, or again how quickly somebody's health is dropping or that person standing in an AoE (heck I watch to see if people stand in AoE's, especially BLM's, some BLM's will each AoE's responsibly too to maximize their DPS).
Furthermore to add to that, each healer job has an ability that is more efficient the lower a person's health drops. For SCH it's Excogitation, which is triggered when health drops below a certain threshold. For WHM it's Benediction, which heals 100% of a person's HP. For AST it's Essential Dignity, which is more potent the lower the target's health is. In addition to this, if I have Earthly Star up I will let my party's health drop on purpose because it's a really potent AoE heal.


The thing is, it's not a problem that will go away whilst the game's design relies so much on good rDPS and that optimised play means higher rDPS and optimising your play being beneficial for clearing content. Because people are always going to try and get better and better at what they do. And it's going to affect both experienced and inexperienced healers. Heck, /I/ still make these mistakes, because I've misjudged a tank's equipment before, I might have a string of having good tanks and then find one that's not using their cooldowns as well and that breaks my rhythm.

So maybe, let's not punish healers by making their job dull as hell because sometimes you might die. Because as we've found, that happens regardless of whether the role has a little complexity in its down time, or is dull as heck.

[Thoosa]

Have you ever tried savage? There’s plenty of mechanics where if any one job makes a mistake, it’s a wipe and the run is ruined. Also you won’t beat enrage if one dps dies and stays dead, unless the rest of the party can cover that dps, which is possible but isn’t that frequent, because everyone else has to be bang on their rotation and (to a certain extent have the gear) to cover the dps loss.

If the tanks die on first mechanic it’s a wipe to, so it’s not exclusive to healers, the dps simply can’t pick up the tanking and carry on the fight.

You forget there are plenty of bad tanks who don’t use CDS correctly, die to tank busters. don’t position the boss correctly (confusing the party positions and causing wipes this way) and don’t have the dps to beat enrages when dps is lacking from the dps job side. Extra dps from the tank can be the difference between enrage and a clear.

And from the dps side? If they can’t do their rotation and optimise, the party will struggle to beat enrage. If they stand in aoes and are always dying, the group won’t beat enrage, etc etc.

If the healers are expected to have a higher standard, then why not the other roles to? Healers are only one part of the machine.

Bad players are not just exclusive to healers.

[MorionQ]

I may be crazy, but I’ve not witnessed this drop in the healer population that seems to be the main concern here. Roulettes still primarily give out tank bonuses, as always. I still adore my SCH.

One detail that jumped out to me from this thread was the idea that if everything is perfect, healers don’t have to heal and in ShB’s that means healers, in general, are bored since our DPS is so simple. From my understanding, this was always the intention from the get go; healer DPS is a bonus addition in group content, never required. I always thought there was a break between dev vision and player vision regarding this since all of us who heal are trained to weave exponential amounts of DPS over our actual purpose because everyone runs off of being as time efficient as possible with ALL content.