The Monk Rework is a bit overkill

[Kabooa]

also appears that some abilities were buffed past the 30% thresh-hold(some abilites 35% and 32% etc.), so monks should be doing more damage over all just not Auto attacks, their skill damage has increased dramatically especially leaden fist.

The skill damage seems proportionate to the reduction of their global modifiers, with the exception of Twin (Very high, to make double true less necessary most likely), Demolish (on the weaker side), and SSS (On the higher end - ROF Last GCD maybe?).

Tornado kick will most likely make up the loss of auto attack potency.

The primary things to watch are the increased rate of use of Forbidden Chakra, which despite a loss will see a higher amount of use. It'll happen more often, but hit for significantly less. Like if you comb through logs and look at what it hit for before, it's going to be nearly 30% less. The boost to deep meditation should theoretically offset this, and crit windows for monks are going to be dumb as heck.

Hard to say where Brotherhood is going to fall, other than "It's just better now". Monks ran in majorly physical parties anyway, so the 3 casters coming in to play at a lowered rate of increase means this probably, for the Monk, will be mostly the same, but a few hundo more RDPS is a few hundo more RDPS.

In short, everything here seems pretty muted, but hey, I'm wrong pretty often.

[Sqwall]

Looks like I'll be stacking SkS to get the GCD down as much as I need to get the burst phase window with RoE timing better then 2sec per GCD

[Renkei]

The skill damage seems proportionate to the reduction of their global modifiers, with the exception of Twin (Very high, to make double true less necessary most likely), Demolish (on the weaker side), and SSS (On the higher end - ROF Last GCD maybe?).

Tornado kick will most likely make up the loss of auto attack potency.

The primary things to watch are the increased rate of use of Forbidden Chakra, which despite a loss will see a higher amount of use. It'll happen more often, but hit for significantly less. Like if you comb through logs and look at what it hit for before, it's going to be nearly 30% less. The boost to deep meditation should theoretically offset this, and crit windows for monks are going to be dumb as heck.

Hard to say where Brotherhood is going to fall, other than "It's just better now". Monks ran in majorly physical parties anyway, so the 3 casters coming in to play at a lowered rate of increase means this probably, for the Monk, will be mostly the same, but a few hundo more RDPS is a few hundo more RDPS.

In short, everything here seems pretty muted, but hey, I'm wrong pretty often.

yeah seems like tornado kick and the increased Charka + the extra RDPS will make up that lost.
ya deep meditation seems to make up for it by procing a lot more, plus with brotherhood now effecting all damage types that should do it.

i expect its rdps similar to smn's devotion since they are the same.

overall it's a damage increase though.

[SpeckledBurd]

The skill damage seems proportionate to the reduction of their global modifiers, with the exception of Twin (Very high, to make double true less necessary most likely), Demolish (on the weaker side), and SSS (On the higher end - ROF Last GCD maybe?).

Tornado kick will most likely make up the loss of auto attack potency.

The primary things to watch are the increased rate of use of Forbidden Chakra, which despite a loss will see a higher amount of use. It'll happen more often, but hit for significantly less. Like if you comb through logs and look at what it hit for before, it's going to be nearly 30% less. The boost to deep meditation should theoretically offset this, and crit windows for monks are going to be dumb as heck.

Hard to say where Brotherhood is going to fall, other than "It's just better now". Monks ran in majorly physical parties anyway, so the 3 casters coming in to play at a lowered rate of increase means this probably, for the Monk, will be mostly the same, but a few hundo more RDPS is a few hundo more RDPS.

In short, everything here seems pretty muted, but hey, I'm wrong pretty often.

Current math has 5.4 Monk coming out about 300 DPS behind 5.3 Monk when you consider nerfed auto attacks. The real question will be if Brotherhood affecting all damage will make that up and then some considering every Melee other than Samurai got a DPS buff.

So no, it's not an increase, it's potentially a loss.

[Renkei]

Current math has 5.4 Monk coming out about 300 DPS behind 5.3 Monk when you consider nerfed auto attacks. The real question will be if Brotherhood affecting all damage will make that up and then some considering every Melee other than Samurai got a DPS buff.

So no, it's not an increase, it's potentially a loss.

ya but doesnt new brotherhood offer similar buff as devotion? that should make up for that amount, then accounting for dumping charka and much more liberal use of six sided star it should still see better dps then before.keep in mind that the 20% reduction in auto attack speed still exists, it's' hard to say,. i am sure forbidden charka will make up for it.

[Kabooa]

Current math has 5.4 Monk coming out about 300 DPS behind 5.3 Monk when you consider nerfed auto attacks. The real question will be if Brotherhood affecting all damage will make that up and then some considering every Melee other than Samurai got a DPS buff.

So no, it's not an increase, it's potentially a loss.

Did you hit the wrong quote there?

I'm not really seeing what I said wrong.

[Renkei]

Current math has 5.4 Monk coming out about 300 DPS behind 5.3 Monk when you consider nerfed auto attacks. The real question will be if Brotherhood affecting all damage will make that up and then some considering every Melee other than Samurai got a DPS buff.

So no, it's not an increase, it's potentially a loss.

did you account for the 5% faster recast? and the 5% faster auto attack?

[wereotter]

did you account for the 5% faster recast? and the 5% faster auto attack?

It's not 5% faster. Previous monk was getting 5% buff for each stack of greased lightning, which was 4 stacks. New monk gives that same speed buff as a passive trait, meaning things are unchanged in that regard. Also regarding your other post, Six Sided Star won't be getting more liberal use than before. It's still a move used on global cooldown and it still resets the cooldown timer for all our other skills to cooldown 5 seconds. It's still intended to be used as a disconnect skill, but there's still the possibility that meditating during disconnect is better than using six sided star.

Current math has 5.4 Monk coming out about 300 DPS behind 5.3 Monk when you consider nerfed auto attacks. The real question will be if Brotherhood affecting all damage will make that up and then some considering every Melee other than Samurai got a DPS buff.

So no, it's not an increase, it's potentially a loss.

There's also the possibility that the job will be buffed not just from the expansion of chakras gained from Brotherhood now extending to casters, but also that chakras gained from our own critical hits is now 100% chance. So we'll likely be using Forbidden Chakra much more often. But agree, we'll have to wait and see if that makes up for the loss to auto attacks.

[Renkei]

It's not 5% faster. Previous monk was getting 5% buff for each stack of greased lightning, which was 4 stacks. New monk gives that same speed buff as a passive trait, meaning things are unchanged in that regard. Also regarding your other post, Six Sided Star won't be getting more liberal use than before. It's still a move used on global cooldown and it still resets the cooldown timer for all our other skills to cooldown 5 seconds. It's still intended to be used as a disconnect skill, but there's still the possibility that meditating during disconnect is better than using six sided star.



There's also the possibility that the job will be buffed not just from the expansion of chakras gained from Brotherhood now extending to casters, but also that chakras gained from our own critical hits is now 100% chance. So we'll likely be using Forbidden Chakra much more often. But agree, we'll have to wait and see if that makes up for the loss to auto attacks.

Wouldn't that only be the case when disengaging for longer then 5 seconds when no mobility is required? Also you'd have to consider the nerf to forbidden Charka will make it worth 68‬ potency per Charka there for implying if you cannot achieve 3 Ticks being out performed by six sided star(340 to 540. 136 vs 140). In its previous form it seemed like it wasn't, keep in mind six sided star can also be used to super weave TFC. This will allow you to disengage without any damage deficit, But Meditate will out perform it if you can get 3 stacks of Charka from it, Plus if you are disengaging temporarily (not for phase changes) on paper this out performs meditate under most circumstances as being in meditate for 3 ticks (aka 3 gcds) would be a bigger damage loss then using six sided star. Meaning that Meditate use will now be far more limited.

Hello, here is the potency math for non-burst standard (3x DK, 3x TwS, 4x SP, 3x LBS, 3x TS, 2x Demo) and double TS rotation including AAs.

Burst phase is not included because right now I can't predict how opener/burst phase will change and I do not want ot waste my time figuring it out before having the new kit in my hands.

Sorry for all the hidden calculations, I just copy-pasted and upgraded my excell sheet I used for years now.

TL/DR: It's not buff, nor nerf.

Burst phase might be a boost, as: 1) more TFC are possible and 2) more raid-wide buff from new Brotherhood - but it probably won't be anything "ground breaking". Maybe we'll see -10 potency in 5.5 on a skill or two.

PSA: Double TS is no longer a dmg boost.

https://imgur.com/a/N0WaT48

EDIT: spellcheck and image link

Thanks for the spreadsheet image!
Keep in mind the boost from Brother-hood will be an increase of at least300DPS(when equalized to devotion) as it now effects all types of damage and stack-able with SMN, Meaning NIN/SMN/MNK, Will be an incredibly strong combo.

[Powercow]

Currently it's looking like a very minor personal DPS nerf to monk but an overall (very small) rDPS buff, assuming you ran 1 caster. A notable buff if you ran 2. About even if you ran 0.

The AA nerf is rather massive (~21% lost on ~21% of your DPS). You will use TFC much more often than before, but it also hits much weaker (~28% weaker about 45% more often, so ~5% more dps from that). There's also a more difficult-to-measure loss in how often you will overcap chakra during Brotherhood, which is going to be a *lot*. Also there's potential issues with oGCD crowding during Brotherhood/RoF from all the TFCs and now TK mixed in, and Monk still can't afford to doubleweave without a DPS loss.

That said, Monk is no longer a sustained DPS job and is extremely burst-heavy, which does lend itself more nicely to playing with other buffs other jobs bring. The personal DPS loss should be more or less gone in a raid when you can line up stuff, use pots during your burst window, etc.