Bard "buff"

[Jukebox12]

If you see it with this point of view, yes it can be completely ignored.

But it's like saying "Any car can travel X distance, therefore nobody needs to change car." You don't need air conditioning, you don't need a fuel efficient car, you don't need a fast one, you don't need special tires. In the end it can cross the finish line even if you're driving in the desert or a path covered with snow and ice, right? But the travel would be much better for an adapted car.
It's not needed but it remains a request.

Ranged jobs are still gutted for no reason, utility and DPS wise.



I don't know about today but during the first ShB savage tier, there was for sure theorycrafting about double Black Mage being far more efficient than a comp including a range when it comes to speedkill. It didn't happened but it was interesting. Soon after, SQEX buffed all three ranged by around 4%.

However, don't underestimate HP bonus.
Back in the first Ultimate, many players were melding Vitality just for increasing their chances of surviving.

Also, I don't think MCH should be on par with BLM and SAM, not even close to the top at all.
In my opinion, we currently still have ranged without depth and there's an obvious ease to play those roles when 99% of the time you're just DPSing without limited range or casting. Ranged should still have a lower rDPS but not gutted by that much.

Rangeds and RDM should be around the same level, SMN slightly above due to their mobility to not anger the playerbase that feels that ranged are broken due to their "insane mobility".

Again in my opinion, the ranged spot should contribute to the party mobility, not simply being mobile themselves that contributes no one, not even themses.

know your stuff. mch has no rdps same with blm and sam so it should be on par or close.

[CKNovel]

know your stuff. mch has no rdps same with blm and sam so it should be on par or close.

Where did I said that?
I'm reading again and again but if your understanding is that rDPS is the additionnal DPS you bring through buff, I don't see that written anywhere in the quote.

If in the other case you use this definition of rDPS which is your damage minus the buff you received (In MCH case since no buffs are given), then MCH can't have no rdps. It means that all DPS have rDPS, it's just only a malus of their own DPS to balance the buffs they received.

On the opposite, aDPS is your actual DPS plus most of the buffs you received.

I may need clarification in your answer.

EDIT: Clarified because it feels that some people have trouble understanding.

[Jukebox12]

Where did I said that?
I'm reading again and again but if your understanding is that rDPS is the additionnal DPS you bring through buff, I don't see that written anywhere in the quote.

If in the other case you use this definition of rDPS which is your damage minus the buff you received (In MCH case since no buffs are given), then MCH can't have no rdps.

On the opposite, aDPS is your actual DPS plus most of the buffs you received.

I may need clarification in your answer.

so you just answered it

[Jukebox12]

That's.... baffling. Dancer procs are extremely forgiving and low-pressure, giving you ample time to use them, whereas many Bard procs must be used within 3 seconds (or less) or else. Bard probably also gets more procs, numerically, over the course of a fight, and has DoTs to upkeep.

This sounds like the person just wanted to play Bard, and fed the team some nonsense explanation because none of them knew any better.

The comment about Technical Step is more true, and gets at the general reason not to bring a Dancer to prog. Dancer requires a very well-optimized group to outperform the other ranged, with bursts tightly planned and aligned, a partner who is on point and not going to die, etc. and that simply isn't what a first clear looks like. Dancer is good to have for Curing Waltz, but you do so knowing full well you're taking a hit on damage output.

Bard vs. Machinist is a little more of a guessing game, because with a strong-dps group Bard should win by a little while bringing some help via Minne, while Machinist is better at contributing damage to sloppy runs but lacks upside if you're at a point of needing a little plus-RNG to clear.

the world race is a bit tighter. Overall bard is easy it's the little things that could cost you the first clear

[Cetonis]

the world race is a bit tighter. Overall bard is easy it's the little things that could cost you the first clear

"Little" things like dropping your DoTs three times and not optimizing your song cycle at all, forfeiting an entire Raging and Barrage for no reason? Because that's what happened, and they cleared with a dps death anyway. 99% chance the ranged player would have played Dancer way better than they played Bard on that particular pull. It's just that the payoff for doing so wouldn't have been there.

TpS is well known for being not-great at damage optimization, and it's actually silly to take what WF racers say about job balance seriously. It just doesn't matter enough for them to get punished for being wrong. Which is a good thing.

Sylink brought Bard because they unironically thought fflogs was bugged, on the basis of their healers dealing more damage with a Bard in their party, based on a sample size of three pulls each. Where the healers pressed more damage GCDs on the pulls where they dealt more damage.

[Kabooa]

TpS is well known for being not-great at damage optimization, and it's actually silly to take what WF racers say about job balance seriously.

Who should we take seriously?

If not the people for whom job balance literally makes or breaks their objective, then who?

The Speedrunners? Speedrunners don't actually care about job balance, they care about getting the fastest possible kill time, which has very little to do with balancing. The only case they overlap is when they want to speedrun, get the best potential runtime, and do it on any job they feel like playing at the time.

The...average joe? I can tell you people don't take me seriously on the matter.

The week 1 clearers? If we're not taking World Race views seriously, why should we take the Not-As-Dedicated-As-World-First people seriously?

World First race teams that use unexpected picks say volumes about the state of Job Balance without having to say anything, but it's also usually what we don't want to hear.

[Cetonis]

Who should we take seriously?

If not the people for whom job balance literally makes or breaks their objective, then who?

The Speedrunners? Speedrunners don't actually care about job balance, they care about getting the fastest possible kill time, which has very little to do with balancing. The only case they overlap is when they want to speedrun, get the best potential runtime, and do it on any job they feel like playing at the time.

The...average joe? I can tell you people don't take me seriously on the matter.

The week 1 clearers? If we're not taking World Race views seriously, why should we take the Not-As-Dedicated-As-World-First people seriously?

World First race teams that use unexpected picks say volumes about the state of Job Balance without having to say anything, but it's also usually what we don't want to hear.

You shouldn't take clearly ridiculous explanations seriously, even if the person saying it has (insert clout here). You don't need to listen to anybody to tell you what's common sense.

And job balance does not make or break world first kills. Nothing is tuned hard enough to make that the case. Mechanical identification, execution, and the creation of strats does. Stuff like getting your sleep schedule in place, knowing how to eat, etc. does. Having a good team dynamic with just the right number of cooks in the kitchen does. Job balance is just about the last thing that's relevant.

Asserting that Dancer is harder to get strong damage out of, compared to Bard, is fine. That's true, I agree with that generally and it's obvious if you've watched each tier play out over time.

Saying it's because Dancer's procs demand more attention than Bard's is laughable. I can only assume their Bard wasn't on the show, or maybe just didn't feel like saying it was personal comfort, or something was lost in translation when posted here.

[Brandedblade]

You shouldn't take clearly ridiculous explanations seriously, even if the person saying it has (insert clout here). You don't need to listen to anybody to tell you what's common sense.

And job balance does not make or break world first kills. Nothing is tuned hard enough to make that the case. Mechanical identification, execution, and the creation of strats does. Stuff like getting your sleep schedule in place, knowing how to eat, etc. does. Having a good team dynamic with just the right number of cooks in the kitchen does. Job balance is just about the last thing that's relevant.

Asserting that Dancer is harder to get strong damage out of, compared to Bard, is fine. That's true, I agree with that generally and it's obvious if you've watched each tier play out over time.

Saying it's because Dancer's procs demand more attention than Bard's is laughable. I can only assume their Bard wasn't on the show, or maybe just didn't feel like saying it was personal comfort, or something was lost in translation when posted here.

Why does it come off as you trying to find any reason to be upset that they used a bard? Whether or not a proc is easier to manage is a matter of opinion and preference anyway.

[Jukebox12]

"Little" things like dropping your DoTs three times and not optimizing your song cycle at all, forfeiting an entire Raging and Barrage for no reason? Because that's what happened, and they cleared with a dps death anyway. 99% chance the ranged player would have played Dancer way better than they played Bard on that particular pull. It's just that the payoff for doing so wouldn't have been there.

TpS is well known for being not-great at damage optimization, and it's actually silly to take what WF racers say about job balance seriously. It just doesn't matter enough for them to get punished for being wrong. Which is a good thing.

Sylink brought Bard because they unironically thought fflogs was bugged, on the basis of their healers dealing more damage with a Bard in their party, based on a sample size of three pulls each. Where the healers pressed more damage GCDs on the pulls where they dealt more damage.

not what I meant by little things. by little things by not having nature minnue and again it's easier to maximize your songs and your DoTs compare to maximizing Dancer. also brd has higher damage

[Cetonis]

not what I meant by little things. by little things by not having nature minnue and again it's easier to maximize your songs and your DoTs compare to maximizing Dancer. also brd has higher damage

Well, yes, because maximizing Dancer is a group effort to make the most of its 2 minute burst. It's not because handling Dancer's procs is hard. Handling Dancer's procs is trivial.