Elemental Wheel, What's the point?

[Firon]

Practically every game has elements, even WoW. I don't even know what you're talking about anymore.

This whole thread is just one long QQ from you about not being able to do anything and everything 100% equally to every other class in the game. Call it whatever the hell you want, but there's no point in having classes if they all perform exactly the same.

"Whatever class I'm playing, it has to be the best for everything and I will complain if it's not!"

Strengths and weaknesses define each class and make each class unique in more ways than just the visual effect that goes off when you click a button. If you can't accept this, than MMORPGs, or even any RPG pretty much, isn't for you.

Fire is AoE, and should be used for AoE. when you do this, the total damage is far greater. I don't know about you, but my firaga and flare both WRECK non-water based mobs.

Also, thunder resistant mobs don't just resist the spells, they take less damage from them period. whether I get a "resist" message or not, the damage is lower than when I use thunder on a water elemental or an orobon or something. Stacking stats might overpower this, but the same is true for your other spells and the appropriate element is still likely to be more effective with those same stats. Now, i'm not saying we're in a perfect situation here, but I can guarantee you, the solution to the balance issue certainly isn't eliminating elements or making all spells identical except for their element. If we do go along with what you say, then element needs to matter more, not less and missing spells need to be put in the game (e.g. the Water line, and Blizzaga), and the extra effects of the spells and combos may need a looking-at.

So basically what your saying no one should be able to play 1 class for every content? Yes i know wow has ele spells i never said remove ele spells or the weakness chart completely i said get rid of it off the trash mobs.

[Alhanelem]

You mean like Campaign and Beseiged were "content" for the non-tier 1 jobs? Or maybe HELM or trading in cabbages for fame? That's as good as being spit in the face. I'm sure if your favorite class/job was reduced to fluff you'd be real happy and saying "thank you sir, may I have another".

No, I don't mean "like <insert unrelated irrelevant stuff from ANOTHER GAME here>" What are you talking about?

Tank, heals, DPS. That's what needs to be filled. Who fills those roles should not matter.

Alright then. Let's remove all but three classes from the game, and name them "tank", "healer" and "DPS." Or, we can keep the uniqueness and distincitveness of each class, and make party formation less of a mindlessly simple endeavor. Like how archers do damage from the back and are more vulnerable and lancers are closer up and a little sturdier.

If you want a simple game, go find a simple game, while the rest of us who like a deep class system where every class has its own strengths and weaknesses can keep it.

Someone did the math: Not going to look for it but basically the Thunder -> Thundara combo adds 700 Magic attk. Which is why you can stack INT and why Thundeha doesn't do a whole lot more than Thundara.

Even on an elemental resistant mob to thundara, 700 Magic attack from a single combo is stupid high.

This is why BLM only spam Thunder -> Thundara while Thundaga is a waste of MP.

It's broken and needs to be fixed.

now this is a more meaningful post, which explains the problem they see and identifies what needs to be fixed.

The game can be balanced without making all classes the same, removing elements or taking any kind of wild mechanic-destroying action. Instead, the actual balance problems need to be addressed.

You just don't get the short end of the stick if you happen to like what in FFXI would be the "wrong" class/job.

The only reason you were ever on the "wrong job" was because of balance issues. These balance issues have nothing to do with elements- just because this or that thing was too strong or not strong enough and SE took forever to address those kinds of problems. Of course, the balance wasn't really as bad as some players would lead you to believe, and I"ve cleared plenty of content on several of those "wrong" jobs in that game.

[Firon]

No, I don't mean "like <insert unrelated irrelevant stuff from ANOTHER GAME here>" What are you talking about?

Alright then. Let's remove all but three classes from the game, and name them "tank", "healer" and "DPS." Or, we can keep the uniqueness and distincitveness of each class, and make party formation less of a mindlessly simple endeavor. Like how archers do damage from the back and are more vulnerable and lancers are closer up and a little sturdier.

If you want a simple game, go find a simple game, while the rest of us who like a deep class system where every class has its own strengths and weaknesses can keep it.

now this is a more meaningful post, which explains the problem they see and identifies what needs to be fixed.

The game can be balanced without making all classes the same, removing elements or taking any kind of wild mechanic-destroying action. Instead, the actual balance problems need to be addressed.

Have you ever played anything besides XI if you have you would know there are 100's of ways to make classes feel different w/o an elemental wheel.

[Duelle]

Alright then. Let's remove all but three classes from the game, and name them "tank", "healer" and "DPS." Or, we can keep the uniqueness and distincitveness of each class, and make party formation less of a mindlessly simple endeavor.

Now I'm getting the feeling you're purposely trying to ignore the point of my posts.

Like how archers do damage from the back and are more vulnerable and lancers are closer up and a little sturdier.

This makes sense. And also has nothing to do with the conversation.

If you want a simple game, go find a simple game, while the rest of us who like a deep class system where every class has its own strengths and weaknesses can keep it.

It's not about simplicity, but inclusiveness. FFXI taught me that designing content to be exclusive to tier 1 and leaving everyone else out in the cold was a bad idea. I feel bad for all the people who liked PUP, BST and the other jobs that were never seen as fit for events and endgame. That's a philosophy that should not carry over to this game.

By the way, the ability to switch classes is not an excuse, as those who want to level every class to cap and gear them will still do so. There are people naturally inclined to do that sort of thing, you know.

The only reason you were ever on the "wrong job" was because of balance issues. These balance issues have nothing to do with elements- just because this or that thing was too strong or not strong enough and SE took forever to address those kinds of problems.

So why would we want to facilitate said balance issues making a reemmergence? FFXI prioritized "uniqueness" over functionality. Too much of one thing, and the proof is in the pudding.