Thoughts on Level Squishes

[DPZ2]

When the numbers reach the ridiculous proportions they did in WoW, a 'squish' might be in order.

For some background, by the end of Mists of Pandaria, high-end raiders had over 500,000 health and were dealing over 200K damage per second. Raid boss health was starting to max out the roughly 2 billion Hit Point limit of the underlying variable.

I don't believe we're anywhere close to those kinds of limits at this point.

[MsQi]

Like new players?

Deep leveling grinds are a significant barrier to entry especially when a game does not offer a reasonable catch-up mechanic. XIV has the double whammy of layering a mandatory story grind on top of a leveling grind that's getting too close to triple digits. Just the story requirement alone garners a "lol, nope" when trying to convince friends to join, having to tell them they'll need to burn through 80+ levels is a deal killer.

And in before the inevitable "journey" whine: If we wanted a that we'd play single-player games.

Unless Square is planning an XI style maintenance mode for XIV and a follow-on MMO up their sleeve they'll need a far more comprehensive story compression than the recent effort along with any level squish. Or at the very least make story optional.

Way to cherry pick. But if a new player finds 99 levels intimidating they are not really interested in an RPG. You start at level 1, you advance to higher levels, that is the entire point. As I said "lateral expansion". They could start a different storyline that would be a choice at the beginning that would take players from 1 to 99 but maybe in a different location or world with new zones. Current players could pick it up in a slightly altered version. Maybe it would all be from the perspective of someone in the Empire.

There would be a whole new series of dungeons, raids, quests, beast tribes, etc., at 50, 60, 70 etc. This would give people multiple storyline to level multiple jobs through and lead to a bigger more expansive world.

[Morningstar1337]

Way to cherry pick. But if a new player finds 99 levels intimidating they are not really interested in an RPG. You start at level 1, you advance to higher levels, that is the entire point. As I said "lateral expansion". They could start a different storyline that would be a choice at the beginning that would take players from 1 to 99 but maybe in a different location or world with new zones. Current players could pick it up in a slightly altered version. Maybe it would all be from the perspective of someone in the Empire.

There would be a whole new series of dungeons, raids, quests, beast tribes, etc., at 50, 60, 70 etc. This would give people multiple storyline to level multiple jobs through and lead to a bigger more expansive world.

I'd be all for that, but I think that's gonna require several dev teams and a lot of coordination to get that out in a single xpac, and doing that over multiple expansion would need to have something closer to XI's system to pan out and would likely entail that there be level capped version of the raids for those that are already capped.

[SavishSalacious]

content

This will never happen.

If you played any other FF game, they stop at 99. This is not wow, we are not going to level 600.

[MsQi]

I'd be all for that, but I think that's gonna require several dev teams and a lot of coordination to get that out in a single xpac, and doing that over multiple expansion would need to have something closer to XI's system to pan out and would likely entail that there be level capped version of the raids for those that are already capped.

Doesn't have to be in one expac, especially is they start soon. One expac could be a new 1-30 or 1-50 experience with slightly sped up leveling. At some point they gain access to the old world. May have to make the world more open where you don't have to advance a storyline to enter zones. For existing players the new story could be on the premise that you are a spy infiltrating the Empire. New players might experience the original MSQ as an echo.

[jamjeeshoul77]

Jesus no. Number progression is a quintessential part of RPGs... I do not understand why people are so afraid of big numbers. I never will. If they don’t want to get levels too high, stop introducing new levels at 100 or something. But again, numerical representation of player power increasing due is a huge part of RPGs and always has been. Please don’t put this idea on squenix’s head...

[Morningstar1337]

Jesus no. Number progression is a quintessential part of RPGs... I do not understand why people are so afraid of big numbers. I never will. If they don’t want to get levels too high, stop introducing new levels at 100 or something. But again, numerical representation of player power increasing due is a huge part of RPGs and always has been. Please don’t put this idea on squenix’s head...

For clairty's sake, I made this thread less because of a fear of big numbers (Disgaea is one my my favorite game series) and more to see if that could solve the issue of SE removing skills and spreading them out so many levels (because they seem hell bent on a maximum amount of skills). More button creep concerns than stat/power creep.

Plus I think they might leave the ilevel system alone as that is where the actual power lies.

[Jandroid]

The expansions in World of Warcraft are extremely disjointed which is why a level squish would benefit it a lot. When an expansion launches, much of the content is isolated on the new expansion and you wouldn't actually lose much by going back. The addition of Allied Races changed it a bit but not by much. WoW also has a heavy focus on end game content while FF14 focuses on the journey as a whole.

Although WoW is a genre defining MMORPG, it has lost a lot of what made it an RPG and has focused a lot more on the MMO aspects of the game. Unlike WoW, FF14 feels more like a JRPG-MMO/RPG-MMO than an MMO-RPG. FF14, to me at least, feels like it prioritizes being a Final Fantasy game than it does being an MMO game.

Another thing to look at is that WoW is the kind of game where you really don't miss much by purchasing a level boost. On the other hand, level boosting as a new player in FF14 is like starting an anime in the middle of the season instead of the beginning.

[Iscah]

Like new players?

Deep leveling grinds are a significant barrier to entry especially when a game does not offer a reasonable catch-up mechanic. XIV has the double whammy of layering a mandatory story grind on top of a leveling grind that's getting too close to triple digits. Just the story requirement alone garners a "lol, nope" when trying to convince friends to join, having to tell them they'll need to burn through 80+ levels is a deal killer.

The thing is, they've altered the EXP gain upwards instead of the level requirements downwards. You can get through the story faster than you did previously, even if the levels haven't changed.

Personally I'd like to see a further boost to low-level battle EXP (rather than one-time-only quest EXP) so you can get over those dull early levels quicker - possibly implemented as a further armoury bonus for secondary classes.

[Jin-]

Stats rise too much at end levels. 50-60 are close together while 70-80 is huuuge