Thoughts on Level Squishes

[MsQi]

Like new players?

Deep leveling grinds are a significant barrier to entry especially when a game does not offer a reasonable catch-up mechanic. XIV has the double whammy of layering a mandatory story grind on top of a leveling grind that's getting too close to triple digits. Just the story requirement alone garners a "lol, nope" when trying to convince friends to join, having to tell them they'll need to burn through 80+ levels is a deal killer.

And in before the inevitable "journey" whine: If we wanted a that we'd play single-player games.

Unless Square is planning an XI style maintenance mode for XIV and a follow-on MMO up their sleeve they'll need a far more comprehensive story compression than the recent effort along with any level squish. Or at the very least make story optional.

Way to cherry pick. But if a new player finds 99 levels intimidating they are not really interested in an RPG. You start at level 1, you advance to higher levels, that is the entire point. As I said "lateral expansion". They could start a different storyline that would be a choice at the beginning that would take players from 1 to 99 but maybe in a different location or world with new zones. Current players could pick it up in a slightly altered version. Maybe it would all be from the perspective of someone in the Empire.

There would be a whole new series of dungeons, raids, quests, beast tribes, etc., at 50, 60, 70 etc. This would give people multiple storyline to level multiple jobs through and lead to a bigger more expansive world.

[Morningstar1337]

Way to cherry pick. But if a new player finds 99 levels intimidating they are not really interested in an RPG. You start at level 1, you advance to higher levels, that is the entire point. As I said "lateral expansion". They could start a different storyline that would be a choice at the beginning that would take players from 1 to 99 but maybe in a different location or world with new zones. Current players could pick it up in a slightly altered version. Maybe it would all be from the perspective of someone in the Empire.

There would be a whole new series of dungeons, raids, quests, beast tribes, etc., at 50, 60, 70 etc. This would give people multiple storyline to level multiple jobs through and lead to a bigger more expansive world.

I'd be all for that, but I think that's gonna require several dev teams and a lot of coordination to get that out in a single xpac, and doing that over multiple expansion would need to have something closer to XI's system to pan out and would likely entail that there be level capped version of the raids for those that are already capped.

[MsQi]

I'd be all for that, but I think that's gonna require several dev teams and a lot of coordination to get that out in a single xpac, and doing that over multiple expansion would need to have something closer to XI's system to pan out and would likely entail that there be level capped version of the raids for those that are already capped.

Doesn't have to be in one expac, especially is they start soon. One expac could be a new 1-30 or 1-50 experience with slightly sped up leveling. At some point they gain access to the old world. May have to make the world more open where you don't have to advance a storyline to enter zones. For existing players the new story could be on the premise that you are a spy infiltrating the Empire. New players might experience the original MSQ as an echo.

[Iscah]

Like new players?

Deep leveling grinds are a significant barrier to entry especially when a game does not offer a reasonable catch-up mechanic. XIV has the double whammy of layering a mandatory story grind on top of a leveling grind that's getting too close to triple digits. Just the story requirement alone garners a "lol, nope" when trying to convince friends to join, having to tell them they'll need to burn through 80+ levels is a deal killer.

The thing is, they've altered the EXP gain upwards instead of the level requirements downwards. You can get through the story faster than you did previously, even if the levels haven't changed.

Personally I'd like to see a further boost to low-level battle EXP (rather than one-time-only quest EXP) so you can get over those dull early levels quicker - possibly implemented as a further armoury bonus for secondary classes.

[linayar]

That said there are ways to avoid an ever increasing level. 99 or 100 is a good place to stop leveling and then move on to alternate forms of character progression. They can have lateral expansions with parallel storylines. Adding a manual level sync feature would help a lot here.

Actually, they don't need to move on to alternate forms of character progression because they already have it: item level progression.

With MSQ being mandatory (and I hope it stays that way), leveling can be removed and your character can progress via item level alongside story progression. The only unique things leveling progression still provides in this game is quest/instance requirement (which can be shifted to item level requirement) and threat immunity in the open world (which can be shifted to story progression).

That said, as long as the game and players' game devices can handle it, there's no problem with an ever increasing level and stats and numbers in general.

[Dyvid]

I don't think we need a level squish like WoW, maybe a stat reduction. But you can't just keep adding levels either. I would say the games level cap should be 99 (Final Fantasy level cap). Then have a merit system or something to add new abilities and stuff.

Level Squish is a good way to keep the game fresh for newcomers as expansions pile up, but the heavy focus on the linear narrative of FFXIV makes things complicated, as far as leveling progression goes for newcomers.

This is true though and Bliz did a good job for newcomers to chose which xpac they want to tackle rather then one huge hike to the top. Not sure if FFXIV could do the same though with it's linear storytelling.

[Berkilak]

Asininely large numbers are a bit of a Final Fantasy tradition. I don't mind them at all. WoW only needed to do it because their engine was limited (and the last boss of the expansion before the first squish had 3-4 health resets because player power was so high). If we run into the same issue, fine - squish. If not? Keep them getting bigger. FFXIV's stat improvements are also nowhere near the exponential rate of WoW.

[Esmoire]

I am in favour of a number squish for sure. I hate games like Disgaea where the numbers really start having no meaning and you need to add "k" or worse "m" to end of everything. And like there's really no illusion of growing power when bunny rabbits out in the wild have a billion HP, you almost die from falling a modicum of elevation, or characters who apparently are pinatas to your party of 24 adventurers get fatal stab wounds from a spork in cutscenes. I want a level squish and a huge compression of numbers.

Asininely large numbers are a bit of a Final Fantasy tradition.

... Except when it is more tradionally traditional! "9999" was the highest damage number you'd get for the first half of the series, with player HP numbers being much smaller. It was only in rereleases or later games did we get gear/skills/engine changes to break the 9999 limit, though it can be argued the insanity seen with FFVII post game bosses favoured attacks that hit multiple times to get around it.

[Xatsh]

It worked in WoW, although I hate mobs that level up with you it removed the progression feel of your character getting stronger. If they do it they need to do it in a different way where the feeling of progression is still there.

In ffxiv I am not sure how it works. In WoW the story for each expansion is sorta a stand alone story, some minor ties ins but mainly standalone. IN FFXIV the story is highly linear and the expansions are sorta a continuation of the story, letting someone say skip heavenward or ARR would be like coming in on series 2 episode 8 of a on a tv show and saying ok whats going on now.

This is an issue of progression in general in a Themepark Game. I think they need to cap the levels and add other forms of progression. Why games with horizontal progression do not have the issue. But to keep ffxiv pure linear, they could cap the lvl but with the current gearing system it would be no different as you would be say lvl 80 in Ilvl 10000 gear doing 1million dps with 5million health. I do not see an easy solution for ffxiv. Horizontal Growth is the answer but the game is pure linear and I do not think a redesign would be worth it at this point in the games life.

[Equitable_Remedy]

I'd have no objections to a level squish, but I also don't think it necessary (having recently leveled my first character to 80).

What does concern me is each expansion adding more abilities without removing or combining others—this game already has a lot of buttons to press that don't need to be buttons.