Crafting (Monopoly, Recipes, Challenge, Relevance)

[bobbygunz]

While we wait for the most recent Player's Poll results to come out, results which will inevitably suggest everyone hates crafting, causing S.E. to downplay its relevance in future content, I'd just like to suggest something anyway.

Futile as this may sound, I think crafting should be made more important. Ever since NMs started dropping good gear and dungeons dropped the best weapons, and then A.F. which replaced all crafted gear (basically), crafters haven't really had much at all to do. And I think that's bad design policy.

The Player's Poll will reflect this (people hate crafting because there's no content for it). It's also not a challenge, there's no glory in it either. Basically, it's irrelevant.

Some suggestions which could change that are:

Recipe Questing - Players could either quest for rare recipes or get them as local leve rewards (as per the olden days). These recipes would not be transferable to other players, giving players a slight monopoly. This would mean the market doesn't get saturated. (Obviously this feature would be applicable to rare high level gear).

Lodestone Recipes - The fact that lodestone reveals the recipes for all newly added items kind of spoils the fun of finding out recipes for yourself. Perhaps every now and again they could leave some out so crafters actually have something to do.

Challenge - Materia was supposed to add content, but it's really just a grind. It's not content in the sense that you do anything besides pray to every heathen god you know and hope the RNG rolls in your favor. So hopefully the new recipes S.E. mentioned lately will add some kind of challenge to the game (both in getting the ingredients, and also producing the item).

Relevance - Instead of excluding crafters from endgame, perhaps S.E. should think of ways to combine the idea of dungeon drops and crafting, rather than keeping them separate (which is what is happening at the moment).

[DoctorMog]

Actually, Double and triple melded items are still better in SOME cases.

And that's the way it should be.

Some of the best items should come from melded HQ crafted items, and some should come from raids.

[darkstarpoet1]

i'll say i don't believe any higher percentage of people hates crafting than they do tanking, main healing, support brd, or gathering on a 1-1 basis. each aspect of the game will have a small percentage of people that wants to do so and that's how it should be.

the game should never be to where everyone likes one aspect of the game and wants to main at it because then the rest of the aspects are wasted development time.

[Airget]

Best thing to do is just hold your breath and see how Hamlets come out, hopefully they are coming out in this update since it's suppose to accessible to all disciplines. I believe they have plans to introduce rare recipes with this coming update and it might be a means for people to choose one focus of craft even if they have all at 50 lol. Though only time will tell how things evolve, since crafting is suppose to be taking a bit of a reform this upcoming update I"m just waiting and hoping that what they change and evolve it into makes it more engaging.

[Mikita]

i'll say i don't believe any higher percentage of people hates crafting than they do tanking, main healing, support brd, or gathering on a 1-1 basis. each aspect of the game will have a small percentage of people that wants to do so and that's how it should be.

the game should never be to where everyone likes one aspect of the game and wants to main at it because then the rest of the aspects are wasted development time.

True.

I also get the impression that a lot of people here hate crafting (and gathering), but in game I know quite a few people who actually enjoy those activities. Granted, most of them are Japanese and almost none of them participate on the forums (even on the Japanese side).

But I do agree with the OP in that there has been a general lack of love for crafters (and gatherers) since the development team is so tied up with 2.0 and at the same time producing battle content to keep players busy.

At any rate, it will be interesting to see the player poll results, and then what direction Yoshi P decides to take based on them.

[Asiaine]

Recipe Monopoly - Players could either quest for rare recipes or get them as local leve rewards (as per the olden days). These recipes would not be transferable to other players, giving players a slight monopoly. This would mean the market doesn't get saturated. (Obviously this feature would be applicable to rare high level gear).

I'm not sure a monopoly is good for a couple of reasons:
Either the item that can be monopolized will be trivial (and thus no one wants it) or good (in which case it could end up with someone who rarely is every around and would not use it).

Also the potential burden of creating hundreds/thousands of unique balanced items?

There is a way to reach 'uniqueness' by ones ability to create HQ versions of the item (since this takes some skill).

Lodestone Recipes - The fact that lodestone reveals the recipes for all newly added items kind of spoils the fun of finding out recipes for yourself. Perhaps every now and again they could leave some out so crafters actually have something to do.

I'm not entirely sure this counts as 'something to do'. It would really just be a matter of guessing a bunch of materials trying out a bunch of combos, then looking on the forums 3 days later to see who guessed correctly and what the recipe is. Given the vast number of recipes and even vaster number of ingredients, it could turn into quite a chore. Not to mention what happens if they change recipes o.o!

I think what you may be desiring here is a good idea (improved skill on figuring out a good recipe), but I do not think this approach would be all that fun/beneficial. We would need a different crafting system (with more attributes/etc per item) to influence the outcome, and thus require a bit more strategy in figuring out what ingredients to use.

Challenge - Materia was supposed to add content, but it's really just a grind. It's not content in the sense that you do anything besides pray to every heathen god you know and hope the RNG rolls in your favor. So hopefully the new recipes S.E. mentioned lately will add some kind of challenge to the game (both in getting the ingredients, and also producing the item).

Yes... I love materia.. I love the idea of materia.. i do not like its present implementation. Random on what type of materia, then random on its level. Then if you want more than one meld, its more random.... there is a LOT of room for improvment here... even if its just a mini-game on how to get your materia or how to meld it.
FYI: I converted about 50 of the same item, and have not gotten more than 3 of the same type of materia.

Relevance - Instead of excluding crafters from endgame, perhaps S.E. should think of ways to combine the idea of dungeon drops and crafting, rather than keeping them separate (which is what is happening at the moment).

Yes...yes...and more yes.... Personally I wish drops were more often than not Materials that could then be crafted into something pretty. Yes of course we should always have a nice weapon/armour that drops.. that's part of how our lore works. But lots of materials would be good (which also fits lore wise). Or even using those weapon/armours as ingredients to craft something better!

[bobbygunz]

I'm not sure a monopoly is good for a couple of reasons:
Either the item that can be monopolized will be trivial (and thus no one wants it) or good (in which case it could end up with someone who rarely is every around and would not use it).

Also the potential burden of creating hundreds/thousands of unique balanced items?

There is a way to reach 'uniqueness' by ones ability to create HQ versions of the item (since this takes some skill).

Monopoly was the incorrect word, perhaps. I meant monopoly upon the imminent release of items for a short duration of time. Eventually multiple people would have quested/received the recipe and there wouldn't be a sole monopoly, however a select amount of individuals would have access to the recipe rather than everyone on server who hasn't even bothered to quest the recipe or work for it.

[Denmo]

Recipe Monopoly - Players could either quest for rare recipes or get them as local leve rewards (as per the olden days). These recipes would not be transferable to other players, giving players a slight monopoly. This would mean the market doesn't get saturated. (Obviously this feature would be applicable to rare high level gear).

That would require a total rethinking of the recipe system. How do you give every player a chance at a unique recipe? What should these items produce?

A simpler solution would be to place recipes with materials that were difficult to obtain, and only a 'skilled' high level crafter could handle them. I mean, that's how it should be anyway.

Lodestone Recipes - The fact that lodestone reveals the recipes for all newly added items kind of spoils the fun of finding out recipes for yourself. Perhaps every now and again they could leave some out so crafters actually have something to do.

Wiki. Wiki Wiki Wiki. Even if the Lodestone didn't reveal recipes, a Wiki site would (and do). It's pointless for Lodestone not to. You talk about it sucking the fun out of the game, but we've been surrounded by Wiki's for years now.

Maybe Lodestone should hold off in posting new recipes for a month after a new patch, that'd work.

Challenge - Materia was supposed to add content, but it's really just a grind. It's not content in the sense that you do anything besides pray to every heathen god you know and hope the RNG rolls in your favor. So hopefully the new recipes S.E. mentioned lately will add some kind of challenge to the game (both in getting the ingredients, and also producing the item).

I think Materia system was a really smart idea with regards to crafting, for every reason stated in the producer's letter pertaining to it. The chance to produce an awesome piece of gear is something worth working on crafting for. There are kinks of course, as you stated, but I think it'll be smoothed out and worked on as the game progresses.

Relevance - Instead of excluding crafters from endgame, perhaps S.E. should think of ways to combine the idea of dungeon drops and crafting, rather than keeping them separate (which is what is happening at the moment).

They are. Hamlet Defense and that PvP attack/defense game thing outlined in the 2.0 .pdfs will both utilize crafters in some fashion. I'd imagine it'd have to do with producing things like ships, catapults, ammo, cannons, etc, and the team that produces more will win. If players get exp rewards for participating in that, I think it'd be a very nice side-thing for crafters.




Edit:

Monopoly was the incorrect word, perhaps. I meant monopoly upon the imminent release of items for a short duration of time. Eventually multiple people would have quested/received the recipe and there wouldn't be a sole monopoly, however a select amount of individuals would have access to the recipe rather than everyone on server who hasn't even bothered to quest the recipe or work for it.

That would just mean there'd be a bum rush of hardcore crafters goin' questing right after a patch releases, removing all fun for anyone who can't do the same. If other people already have the monopoly on said items, what's the point in doing it yourself?

[bobbygunz]

That would just mean there'd be a bum rush of hardcore crafters goin' questing right after a patch releases, removing all fun for anyone who can't do the same. If other people already have the monopoly on said items, what's the point in doing it yourself?

Again, I think you misinterpret me. The suggestion is... certain crafted items would have to be quested for the recipe, and it would be non transferable (so that wikis and lodestone would not avail you). Just pretend I didn't say monopoly. Just think of it like questing for recipes. That was my intention.

[Asiaine]

Monopoly was the incorrect word, perhaps. I meant monopoly upon the imminent release of items for a short duration of time. Eventually multiple people would have quested/received the recipe and there wouldn't be a sole monopoly, however a select amount of individuals would have access to the recipe rather than everyone on server who hasn't even bothered to quest the recipe or work for it.

Ah yes, needing to do a quest (or a storyline, or what not) in order to qualify for the recipe would definately be a neat idea. Perhaps 'advanced' recipes may require a bit of questing in the 'ancient arts' in order to make those nice little items!

Ooh, the Ancient Art Of Cookiee Making unlocks the recipe for: Fruitcake Cookiee