Is healing supposed to be this...hard?

[Absurdity]

That is all fine and good, but as a tank my sole purpose is to stay alive. I will forever use clemency to keep myself up, or the healer alive. Don't really care about doing "efficient" DPS when people are dying. I think everyone that fights the use of clemency thinks every paladin just spams it every rotation.

I use clemency in emergencies like healer is one shot, or healer healing themselves, and hard casting a raise. DPS goes out the window when the chips are down, and being a good tank is protecting those with no armor not just min-maxing your DPS. In a tight static yeah Clemency wouldn't be used as much if not at all, but PUG's and BS faceroll content?....give me a break.

Sure, using Clemency to save a party member or a whole run is certainly a useful thing... that's not what we were talking about though, is it?

Pop Requiescat and insta heals with at least 3-4 casts.....just incredible heals that healers SHOULD recognize to squeeze in DPS. My IRL healer friend knows this when I play paladin and takes advantage of it to DPS.

As far as I can see we were talking about using Clemency to allow your healer to dps more, which is not the same thing as saving a player that would've otherwise died.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

To the OP...
Like any other roles, it just takes time to get used to the gameplay. It is alright to start from 'overhealing' as you tread slowly to 'efficient healing'. One of the drawback in DF parties is we'll never know what kind of players we'll be matched with.
Sometimes it's the top-notch players: your mates won't be needing too much tending and you can DPS away (some oGCDs are sufficient).
Sometimes it's the decent/average players: your mates may hiccups a few times. DPS window from you is getting tighter but by no means, still possible. Just have to be more vigilant.
Sometimes they're just plain terrible: out of oGCDs and packs are still mowing down your tank, for whatever reason... could be tank blowing off all their cooldowns in one go, or simply forgetting them. Or one of the DPS sleeping. Or too much eating red carpets. Just try your best here. Add in your healing spell as long as your resources allows to. If it still leads to a wipe you should know it shouldn't be on you.

Adjust accordingly.

In regards to Clememecy usage...
To me, they are a signal to me to squeeze in more Glare/Broil/Malefic/Lightshow/Ground Slap/Gravity... only to some extent.
I would get annoyed if:
1. I slapped an Excogitation only for it to never proc because the PLD's too scared going below 50%. (I main SCH so this irritates me the most)
2. There's no incoming lethal damage but still insists to Clememecy self or other party members to full HP.
3. Clememecy'ing to the point of not giving me the chance to abuse Benediction's & Essential Dignity's powerful potencies.

At that point I'd look up to see if the said PLD ever played other healers. If they don't, I'd usually give them word of reassurance and encourage them to go wild with that Holy Spirit/Circle.
If they have healers leveled to 80, well... I'll just enjoy that Clemency animation... subjectively speaking, I love it. lol.

[Sqwall]

Sure, using Clemency to save a party member or a whole run is certainly a useful thing... that's not what we were talking about though, is it?



As far as I can see we were talking about using Clemency to allow your healer to dps more, which is not the same thing as saving a player that would've otherwise died.

Well isn't it?... I'm staying alive which is what I'm supposed to do. And the idea of telling a healer don't worry I can heal myself keep dpsing or using requiescat + clemency combo to come back from possible wipe. I don't see the issue here.

I think some are more concerned about the DPS loss and confusing that with dyeing. I'm trying to point out how powerful Clemency is and with a Requiscat + Clemency combo in a group that communicates well can be very effective. By the logic of tank DPS loss then clemency should be removed from the game since the community has spoken.

I don't know how many times I have watched as a pug would struggle and as a Paladin (a tank is generally the watching everything in a dungeon or raid as much as they can) I have made split second decisions to keep party members alive. Trust can only go so far until you need to use clemency to help heal a party member from death, or requiescat + Clemency to heal myself when the healer is rezzing or AOE spam healing the whole party.

I mean when I play Warrior... I NEVER get an oGCD or GCD heal when I pop nascent flash as the healer I play with see this and just continues with glares or holy spam. And I still have Thrill and Equilibrium left, which he knows since he has played tanks also. It's the same for Clemency when he notices (I think he has me focus targeted to see my casts) I start to cast it, or I mention to him in voice chat saying "I got it." Now that is trust. Try that in a pug...well you get healers basically getting pissed off.

I don't get it...you either use it or you don't. If you do use clemency your more then likely going to overheal as the healer is also healing me. Or I don't use clemency and become selfish just focusing on my DPS rotation. Screw the healer struggling, my DPS matters more.

This only exists on paladin....lol when I play Astro I have never got upset at a PLD for using clemency.

[Sqwall]

To the OP...
Like any other roles, it just takes time to get used to the gameplay. It is alright to start from 'overhealing' as you tread slowly to 'efficient healing'. One of the drawback in DF parties is we'll never know what kind of players we'll be matched with.
Sometimes it's the top-notch players: your mates won't be needing too much tending and you can DPS away (some oGCDs are sufficient).
Sometimes it's the decent/average players: your mates may hiccups a few times. DPS window from you is getting tighter but by no means, still possible. Just have to be more vigilant.
Sometimes they're just plain terrible: out of oGCDs and packs are still mowing down your tank, for whatever reason... could be tank blowing off all their cooldowns in one go, or simply forgetting them. Or one of the DPS sleeping. Or too much eating red carpets. Just try your best here. Add in your healing spell as long as your resources allows to. If it still leads to a wipe you should know it shouldn't be on you.

Adjust accordingly.

In regards to Clememecy usage...
To me, they are a signal to me to squeeze in more Glare/Broil/Malefic/Lightshow/Ground Slap/Gravity... only to some extent.
I would get annoyed if:
1. I slapped an Excogitation only for it to never proc because the PLD's too scared going below 50%. (I main SCH so this irritates me the most)
2. There's no incoming lethal damage but still insists to Clememecy self or other party members to full HP.
3. Clememecy'ing to the point of not giving me the chance to abuse Benediction's & Essential Dignity's powerful potencies.

At that point I'd look up to see if the said PLD ever played other healers. If they don't, I'd usually give them word of reassurance and encourage them to go wild with that Holy Spirit/Circle.
If they have healers leveled to 80, well... I'll just enjoy that Clemency animation... subjectively speaking, I love it. lol.

I can get on board with this. Well put in ways that maybe I can't explain. Simply: If your a healer and you pick up on clemency usage...good. Your not sleeping!

[Ursa_Vonfiebryd]

I've played for a while, but took a break after finishing Shadowbringers. I came back about two months ago.

I have always loved healing in this game. It was awesome balancing DPS and heals as SCH, and I felt like WHM was easy mode. I healed a bit, then just ran dps for most of the dungeon.

Now, I feel like I'm constantly pushed to the limit. Tanks run right to a boss's door in dungeons, dragging all the mobs with them. If I stop healing them for a second, they are dead. I can't switch to damage spells until just a few mobs are alive.

I used to get 1-3 commendations a run. Now I'm lucky if I get 1. I just feel like a crappy healer at this point. I don't want to risk DPSing because it usually means the tank just dies and then we wipe, but if I'm healing the whole time, I feel like a beginner healer that can't balance dps and heals. It's just not fun anymore.

Is this just the state of healers right now or do I really need to rework my play style?

SCH is a particularly tetchy one to play. They added buffs and pet commands but SCH has always been more about damage mitigation (shields etc.) more than high potency heals and unless you're know your full range of skills you can find yourself hurting for MP more than WHM or AST.

Yes. Tank quality has dropped a bit. But I find preemptive healing to pretty much be the band-aid for this. Stacking regens, stacking shields (sacred soil with Galvanize/etc). Give that tank regen and medical 2 AND whatever they're calling stoneskin now--I forget that skill but it's instant now. People rant about overhealing but it's better to have a safety net already going when you want to get some damage in than heal in the moment and have the tank die the second you slip a dps spell in. Good luck out there.

[Payadopa]

If I stop healing them for a second, they are dead. I can't switch to damage spells until just a few mobs are alive.

Then why did you choose playing as a healer?
I'm honestly asking.

[Riluske]

Then why did you choose playing as a healer?
I'm honestly asking.

Wow, I did my initial reply and walked away, just came back to check on this thread. I didn't think it would stay active.

It's a great question. I started because I don't get a lot of time to play, so I don't want to spend that time waiting in queues as DPS. I played a tank in wow, but I hated how the whole pace of a dungeon was based on you, especially in the mythic dungeons.

I thought I would try healer in ffxiv, and really liked it. I liked how you had to balance healing with dps. I started as a scholar, and it just felt really good all around. It was really awesome when you could get in a flow and keep damage up while keeping the tank near full health.

I think there was a major change when Shadowbringers came out. I can't remember exactly, but I want to say scholars lost a lot of their damage spells (it might actually be just one or two). I think tanks also started taking a bit more damage? It was a pretty strong shift to primarily healing.

Mind you, I left just a few months after 5.0 came out (I beat the main campaign, and began to loose interest and didn't want to pay if I wasn't playing everyday). Back when I left, I think tanks weren't pulling as much because no one had a high item level. So coming back was really tough. Keeping up with the huge pulls was really hard.

I recently switched back to white mage. I reassessed my healing and use of gcds. I'm doing a lot better now and enjoying it again. I still don't feel like I have the hang of SCH though, and whm doesn't feel as smooth as I would like (just getting used to long casts). But it's getting better.

[Rilifane]

Then why did you choose playing as a healer?
I'm honestly asking.

Chosing to play healer doesn't mean you want to babysit everyone 24/7.
Having to heal spam everyone is not nearly as fun as successfully juggling healing and dpsing.

[Saefinn]

On the Clemency debate, each healer has spells that are more efficient if your health drops below a certain threshold and a good healer will know when it's okay to let you drop. But I can get it can be hard to tell if it's a good healer let your health drop on purpose or one who isn't paying attention. I think with PUGs all roles should expect some unpredictability.

I was tanking Shiva in a roulette yesterday and watched my HP drop low and was like "oh Shi" the first time but I never died because healers were on it and relaxed seeing them on it. Then contrast to Lakshmi a week a go when I died within the first 2 minutes of pulling not expecting to die that quickly. So my general rule of thumb is to just see what happens, a wipe is not the end of the world, if it seems the healer is on top of it, I'll not worry. If it seems they're struggling, I'll do what I can to help out more, because when I play PLD I'd rather my MP be used for Holy Spirit/Circle, but not at the cost of a successful run. I once had a healer who was having connection issues, he offered to leave but I just helped heal with Clemency instead. I feel it should always be a team effort.

As for the OP, an anecdote for contrast, I used to main a healer on WoW, yesterday I decided to heal a dungeon on WoW for the first time in a long time. Tank was new to tanking, the tank died twice, the DPS's died a few times, I died once. And it felt like I was doing a terrible job. Yet healing in XIV is very second nature to me. But it was a mix of things, the tank pulled big, some of the DPS are AoEs, my rustyness, probably my gear and the tank being inexperienced too.

I think there was a major change when Shadowbringers came out. I can't remember exactly, but I want to say scholars lost a lot of their damage spells (it might actually be just one or two). I think tanks also started taking a bit more damage? It was a pretty strong shift to primarily healing.

SCH was gutted of DPS spells, it was quite a big change for their DPS. I think SCH stopped being OP but I disagree on there being a strong shift to primary healing as one DPSing 60-70% of most runs of stuff.

But the jobs have changed so there may be new things to learn to optimise the healing aspect more.

[Payadopa]

Chosing to play healer doesn't mean you want to babysit everyone 24/7.
Having to heal spam everyone is not nearly as fun as successfully juggling healing and dpsing.

You call it babysitting, I call it doing your job. I like DPSing but you make it sound like that's your primary reason to be in the group. It's not.