Is healing supposed to be this...hard?

[Kabooa]

It's simply very inefficient to waste one of your big dps cooldowns so your healer can spam their 140-160 potency aoe over your 375 potency aoe.

While you are correct, please keep in mind that tank-to-anything potency comparisons are faulty.

Caster potency particularly is much more potent than physical, especially tanks.

Putting this into perspective, 160 caster potency (or Scholar's Art of War) is basically the same power of a equally geared Paladin doing Req-Holy Circles.

This is mostly irrelevant, since there is rarely a case for one making a trade off for the other.

[Sqwall]

Except that using your Requiescat windows to Holy Circle in trash packs is a significant DPS gain over any kind of healer dps.

The reason why people are fine with other tanks healing themselves but not PLD is because it costs those tanks nothing. If a Paladin uses Clemency to heal themselves during Requiescat in dungeons it is a loss of atleast 115 potency per enemy every cast.


It's simply very inefficient to waste one of your big dps cooldowns so your healer can spam their 140-160 potency aoe over your 375 potency aoe.

That is all fine and good, but as a tank my sole purpose is to stay alive. I will forever use clemency to keep myself up, or the healer alive. Don't really care about doing "efficient" DPS when people are dying. I think everyone that fights the use of clemency thinks every paladin just spams it every rotation.

I use clemency in emergencies like healer is one shot, or healer healing themselves, and hard casting a raise. DPS goes out the window when the chips are down, and being a good tank is protecting those with no armor not just min-maxing your DPS. In a tight static yeah Clemency wouldn't be used as much if not at all, but PUG's and BS faceroll content?....give me a break.

[Absurdity]

That is all fine and good, but as a tank my sole purpose is to stay alive. I will forever use clemency to keep myself up, or the healer alive. Don't really care about doing "efficient" DPS when people are dying. I think everyone that fights the use of clemency thinks every paladin just spams it every rotation.

I use clemency in emergencies like healer is one shot, or healer healing themselves, and hard casting a raise. DPS goes out the window when the chips are down, and being a good tank is protecting those with no armor not just min-maxing your DPS. In a tight static yeah Clemency wouldn't be used as much if not at all, but PUG's and BS faceroll content?....give me a break.

Sure, using Clemency to save a party member or a whole run is certainly a useful thing... that's not what we were talking about though, is it?

Pop Requiescat and insta heals with at least 3-4 casts.....just incredible heals that healers SHOULD recognize to squeeze in DPS. My IRL healer friend knows this when I play paladin and takes advantage of it to DPS.

As far as I can see we were talking about using Clemency to allow your healer to dps more, which is not the same thing as saving a player that would've otherwise died.

[Liam_Harper]

That is all fine and good, but as a tank my sole purpose is to stay alive.

Both tanks and healers have a dual-purpose of dps and staying alive. This is why both have a dps toolkit. A great tank will deal decent dps and stay alive.

You're correct Clemency is great in legitimate emergencies, but previously you simply stated it's fine using it at 30%. If your healer is alive and well and you Clemency at 30%, you'll just waste their Excogs, Bene's or Essential Dignities. If you see a hardcast raise, dead healer or know for certain your healer is playing terribly and you drop low, then yes by all means Clemency.

[Mavrias]

I don't think the power of Clemancy should be overlooked, and it is very useful with requiescat. I have never wasted MP on a heal that I didn't need as a Paladin. Using Clemancy with 30% HP left is not a waste. With a WHM it's different as you will more then likely get a BENE, and that takes understanding the game. You have to be smart with game given the circumstances. When I heal warriors it's welcome to have them heal themselves and I find it refreshing to heal warriors. The difference from a good warrior and a GREAT warrior is that the are "scrappy" and VERY hard to go down. I love it when I play warrior and take a good chunk of damage, pop Equilibrium, nascent with Inner Chaos x2. And my healer (who is my IRL friend knows my limits) and they just keep DPSing, and knows when I would be in any real danger.

NOT the case for paladin with clemancy. Pop Requiescat and insta heals with at least 3-4 casts.....just incredible heals that healers SHOULD recognize to squeeze in DPS. My IRL healer friend knows this when I play paladin and takes advantage of it to DPS. He just notices when I'm building my MP back and also low on HP....then he uses BENE. He is a smart healer and very efficient.

The other three tanks lose nothing from using their self healing because they are all oGCDs. Clemency eats a GCD that could be better served for damage and for the case of using it during Requiescat, eats into your main burst phase.


Also, ASTs will let you get low to maximize essential dignity potency. SCHs will pop excogitation when you get low. Not to mention the myriad of other potent oGCD heals at healers' disposal. All of which are shorter than Benediction's 3 minute cooldown. The fact that you think WHMs are the only ones who can afford to let you drop low shows a fundamental lack of understanding of healing jobs.

[Liam_Harper]

Honestly I don't mind Clemency below 50% anywhere near as much as my fellow co-healer spamming Medica II's blindly when there's no danger, wasting my Star's, Asylums, upcoming Assizes, lilies and what-not. I'll take the occasional Clemency of Distrust any day over a healbot.

[BaconBits]

Getting partnered up with a healbot while excog is slowly ticking away on the tank is a pain I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

[Sauteed]

Honestly I don't mind Clemency below 50% anywhere near as much as my fellow co-healer spamming Medica II's blindly when there's no danger, wasting my Star's, Asylums, upcoming Assizes, lilies and what-not. I'll take the occasional Clemency of Distrust any day over a healbot.

Hehe Clemency of Distrust.. I'm kind of steely these days I just let myself get murdered these days until I see the healer dance step into avoidable aoes and die themselves. I haven't seen people froth at the mouth and bemoan me for a c.o.d. lately tho I suppose I have learned to use them at understandable moments.

[AphraelAmarantha]

I must be an oddity because I don’t find healing to be easy. I find it quite difficult. Especially when tanks do wall to wall pulling. I can’t cast anything if I’m constantly having to move out of the way of multiple aoes. Or the tank is taking so much damage no amount of healing I do can keep them alive. I don’t say anything though because if a tank wants large pulls in DF and I say no, then I’ll just get kicked. So I say nothing and just try to roll with it. But overall, I don’t find healing to be easy as 80 percent of the playerbase seems to think. I really don’t understand how people think healing is easy; sometimes it’s too overwhelming for me if the wall to wall pulls go crazy like in Mt. Gulg.

[Rilifane]

I must be an oddity because I don’t find healing to be easy. I find it quite difficult. Especially when tanks do wall to wall pulling. I can’t cast anything if I’m constantly having to move out of the way of multiple aoes. Or the tank is taking so much damage no amount of healing I do can keep them alive. I don’t say anything though because if a tank wants large pulls in DF and I say no, then I’ll just get kicked. So I say nothing and just try to roll with it. But overall, I don’t find healing to be easy as 80 percent of the playerbase seems to think. I really don’t understand how people think healing is easy; sometimes it’s too overwhelming for me if the wall to wall pulls go crazy like in Mt. Gulg.

Most people refer to max level content when stating that healing is easy because the amount of time you spent pre 80 is very limited.
And even then it's mostly just ShB leveling dungeons that require more awareness and better gameplay than experts. Bardam's is the outlier for SB but the other dungeons are pretty tame even if the tank isn't good.
But if you have trouble with healing in big pulls because you need to move too much, you're probably not positioned correctly. Even in melee range there isn't so much going on that it's plain impossible to get a single cast out. The only group that comes to mind that spams an annoying amount of aoes are the stone tablet thingies in Bardam's, but slidecasting and Swiftcast exist on all healers and it's only one group.

If you don't feel up to the pull speed or size, speak up. Even if you get kicked, you're a healer so you get an instant invite again and the other party will probably be different. Getting kicked doesn't come with a penalty so it's actually preferabel over leaving on your own accord. Doing the mega pulls in Mt Gulg or Qitana is a bad idea unless you're absolutely sure that the tank and healer both know what to do and dps is good. Most randoms don't do that but two packs at a time should be managable unless you try to heal with Cure I/ Benefic I/ Physick. ShB leveling dungeon mobs hit harder than max level dungeon mobs relative to your gear but if you have trouble healing regular pulls (not the megapulls in the two dungeons I mentioned), you're likely not using part of your toolkit correctly.
But it's hard to gauge what is going wrong if we don't know the exact situation.