Is healing supposed to be this...hard?

[SWB]

I recommend learning all the tank cool downs, and then calling out tanks that dont use them.

Every dungeon I ask a tank why they havent used arms length, reprisal, rampart, their 30% mitigation, or their job unique ability if I dont see it in their rotation.

I will let tanks die when theres 3 or less mobs left if they havent used mitigation, if they would have survived by using mitigation.

As a healer it's your responsibility to heal scripted damage. It is not your responsibility to pick up the slack of lazy players.

[Rilifane]

I recommend learning all the tank cool downs, and then calling out tanks that dont use them.

Every dungeon I ask a tank why they havent used arms length, reprisal, rampart, their 30% mitigation, or their job unique ability if I dont see it in their rotation.

I will let tanks die when theres 3 or less mobs left if they havent used mitigation, if they would have survived by using mitigation.

As a healer it's your responsibility to heal scripted damage. It is not your responsibility to pick up the slack of lazy players.

While learning tank cooldowns so you can spot them at a glimpse and know what to expect in terms of incoming damage is a good idea, the whole letting people die because healing extra damage is not your responsibility is bad advice for DF.

This mentality is completely fine for endgame content with a static or even in PFs when people repeatedly fail at the same mechanic. Healer dps matters, resource management matters and many deaths snowball into more deaths/ a wipe but that's not the case in DF.
Mistakes can happen for a myriad of reasons and DF brings all kinds of players together. Intentionally letting someone die when one hardcast could've taken care of it is griefing. Not playing perfectly is not.
Just because I know that I can heal through certain things or take so little damage that my healer doesn't need to heal at all doesn't mean I should hold everyone I meet in DF to the same standard. And it certainly doesn't mean I should intentionally grief and slow the run down by refusing to do more than the absolute bare minimum.

I don't condone things like not aoeing in big pulls, not using mitigation at all, not dpsing at all etc. but if someone is trynig but still unsure about how to best go about something and uses skills suboptimal, that's enough for DF. If someone makes a glaring mistake, I see that we get through it and speak up about it afterwards.

[tdb]

Every dungeon I ask a tank why they havent used arms length, reprisal, rampart, their 30% mitigation, or their job unique ability if I dont see it in their rotation.

This feels a little bit accusatory to me. I've picked up tanking relatively recently, and if I don't use a particular CD it's because I'm too busy trying to hold aggro from everything, dodge AoEs, manage my rotation and keep an eye on my mitigations. Any of those tasks by itself is easy enough but doing all at once requires enough attention that I haven't perfected it yet. Arm's Length is probably my least used CD, aside from Superbolide which is just annoying because it reduces my HP to 1.

Offering advice is fine but maybe try to put it in a bit more constructive way, like "you should use arm's length on pulls" rather than "why aren't you using arm's length?".

[Sqwall]

I feel like the direction in 6.0 should take us in the direction of no more zerging through the dungeons.

Offering a real tactical playstyle for each and every single engagement. As a tank I find it boring to just run to every pack of trash, collect it, and zerg it, which makes the dungeons boring and mountainous to run for my dailies.

To that point dailies should not be a slog to get through, but I should have to turn my brain on to finish them. A very difficult balance is needed.

Now as a healer I really have to evaluate the tank to see if they can handle the punishment so that I can effectively DPS. Healers have to thread the needle for DPS and heals while playing dual roles. No other class does this. A tank tanks and is frowned at when healing themselves (clemency is strong, but healers fume). A DPS just DPSes, crazy I know, but when they stand in stuff healers go ballistic...well I do anyway.

Healers have to heal the tanks pulling wall to wall and are sneered at when they don't DPS during large pulls. For Astro it's not so cumbersome to DPS, but when you need to heal hard on a tank that doesn't use CD's or is wearing grocery bags for gear....well it get's dicey.

That is why I believe 6.0 needs to ditch the wall to wall pulling to mix things up. Each trash engagement should feel like "it can go south rather quick" if you aren't paying attention to the mobs. Crowd control needs to be utilized MORE in the next expac to, and the trash pulls need to be more dangerous. We also need more dangerous status effects like: Poison that spreads to other party members, or bleeds that kill a tank in seconds, or Zombie (you heal them you kill them), or mobs that only target healers, or better yet mobs that are hidden and backstab healers or mages or target their MP reducing it to 0.

I mean look at Temple of Quarn... for most that is the real dungeon that used actual mechanics to just get through the dang thing....even FINAL STING made the "oh crap" moment come up when your tank just went *poof*. We need more of that to keep the trash/dungeons compelling and WAY less zerging

[Teno]

Healing is very easy, but I've never seen so many bad players as of late. The same goes for healers and dps. Tanks that never use their cds and do their single target rotation on full packs of mobs, healers that never dps and spam cure1/physick, and dps that straight up disengage and do nothing during mechanics, losing tens of seconds of uptime.
But I feel this is expected, as the good and engaged players have been on break for a while since we've been lacking hard content for months now. I expect that once 5.4 hits good players will be back.
Also because bozja is fairly recent you can see above average and good players grinding there (though many people are semi afk there).

[Liam_Harper]

Leveling dungeons just aren't that easy. In particular ShB dungeons with low dps hit like a truck. I've seen wall pulls where a tank with a few cd's ate a Star, AspBenefic, ED, CE, CU, CI and then needed Synastry/Benefic II's on top. In terms of ease I'd much rather heal any current Savage fight than a lv71-79 dungeon. Experts and level cap dungeons (50,60,70) are a whole different story and can mostly be steamrolled with oGcD's and minimal attention.

It doesn't mean they're crazy difficult, just that you want to go into a leveling dungeon with the mindset that you'll likely need GCD's and to pay attention to the tank. Don't take the forums "healing is faceroll lol" comments to heart too much, for the most part it is but some leveling dungeons can certainly test you.

[AnotherPerson]

Healing in ShB leveling dungeons can certainly test your ability to play a healer but it is in no way very difficult unless you plan on carrying the whole run. If you're DPSing and healing in leveling gear, it's mainly difficult if tanks cannot rotate their mitigations properly and if the DPS aren't using their DPS skills properly because damage from enemies is a lot higher and the HP values increased in respect to the healing skills' potencies so healers can't cover and heal all the mistakes instantly if the players make very punishing errors. With big pulls, you will have to GCD heal no matter what even if the party plays well. Essentially, ShB leveling dungeons starts expecting a level of competency on all players on knowing their job and learning the mechanics of the dungeon - which should be the norm. A healer at ShB dungeons can no longer be babysitting the team and covering for all mistakes as it once did or you'd just run out of resources really quickly.

[YusiKha]

A tank tanks and is frowned at when healing themselves (clemency is strong, but healers fume).

Feel free to Equilibrium, Aurora, and Abyssal Drain.
I just don’t want to see tanks wasting Holy Circles for Clemency when I’m planning a essential dignity/benediction when you drop to 20%.

[Sqwall]

Feel free to Equilibrium, Aurora, and Abyssal Drain.
I just don’t want to see tanks wasting Holy Circles for Clemency when I’m planning a essential dignity/benediction when you drop to 20%.

I don't think the power of Clemancy should be overlooked, and it is very useful with requiescat. I have never wasted MP on a heal that I didn't need as a Paladin. Using Clemancy with 30% HP left is not a waste. With a WHM it's different as you will more then likely get a BENE, and that takes understanding the game. You have to be smart with game given the circumstances. When I heal warriors it's welcome to have them heal themselves and I find it refreshing to heal warriors. The difference from a good warrior and a GREAT warrior is that the are "scrappy" and VERY hard to go down. I love it when I play warrior and take a good chunk of damage, pop Equilibrium, nascent with Inner Chaos x2. And my healer (who is my IRL friend knows my limits) and they just keep DPSing, and knows when I would be in any real danger.

NOT the case for paladin with clemancy. Pop Requiescat and insta heals with at least 3-4 casts.....just incredible heals that healers SHOULD recognize to squeeze in DPS. My IRL healer friend knows this when I play paladin and takes advantage of it to DPS. He just notices when I'm building my MP back and also low on HP....then he uses BENE. He is a smart healer and very efficient.

[Absurdity]

NOT the case for paladin with clemancy. Pop Requiescat and insta heals with at least 3-4 casts.....just incredible heals that healers SHOULD recognize to squeeze in DPS. My IRL healer friend knows this when I play paladin and takes advantage of it to DPS. He just notices when I'm building my MP back and also low on HP....then he uses BENE. He is a smart healer and very efficient.

Except that using your Requiescat windows to Holy Circle in trash packs is a significant DPS gain over any kind of healer dps.

The reason why people are fine with other tanks healing themselves but not PLD is because it costs those tanks nothing. If a Paladin uses Clemency to heal themselves during Requiescat in dungeons it is a loss of atleast 115 potency per enemy every cast.


It's simply very inefficient to waste one of your big dps cooldowns so your healer can spam their 140-160 potency aoe over your 375 potency aoe.