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  1. #1
    Player
    QooEr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Posts
    835
    Character
    Qoo Er
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Astrologian Lv 90

    improving early game experience by rearranging skills

    A lot of new players get disillusioned with the early game having very little skills, not-so-new players often ignore the core aspects of their job due to getting it too late and not having much time to practice it or even getting lost due to level sync, and veteran players in general hate running low level stuff because youre missing almost all skills.

    The solution isnt as simple as just keeping skills when level syncing cuz thatd be a balancing nightmare and new players will feel like theyre inherently gimped. Role skills set a small precent in adding more skills when synced in that once you unlock them you can use them at any level sync, but thats not what i have in mind.

    I think what might fix most of these issues is simply changing what skills are available at lower level. Think of having every dps getting an AOE attack since sastasha, or every healer having some form of ogcd healing, and jobs having most of their core functions by level 50 if possible.

    A valid concern could be, "wouldnt this overwhelm new players?", but im not referring for more skills to be added at lower level, but rather to redistribute when you get certain skills, giving players more time to master these core aspects, with the excetion of jobs with really few skills at low level (such as white mage, who doesnt get anything from lv 18 all the way till level 30).
    For instance, lets look at melee and aoe attacks:
    ninja gets trick attack at lv 18, which they cant really use effectively because you need suiton to actually use it in combat, and death blossom until level 38. Monk gets fists of earth at level 15 and arm of the destroyer at lv 26. Just swapping these two skills around would let monk do aoe starting in sastasha. Dragoon has only five skills at level 18 and gets a sixth one 8 levels later, so giving them an aoe skill at level 18 or lower would not overwhelm new players.

    Ill give AST as the prime example of job builds and level syncs right:

    - AST gets essential dignity at level 15, which means in every dungeon since sastasha you have an ogcd heal, which is more in line with the healing style youd expect at higher levels. This lets people build better healing habits than just using cure or physick because its the only thing available. WHM on the contrary gets benediction at level 50, and tetragrammaton all the way until 60. After 59 levels of practically relying on gcd heals, its no surprise that newer white mages barely ever use ogcds.

    - AST gets benefic II at level 26 (totorak) vs other healers at lv 30. Also gets aspected benefic at lv 34 (brayflox) vs regen at 35 (qarn). just a better synced healing experience for those dungeons really, and new players get more dungeons to get into the habit of using regens to heal.

    - Ast gets Aspected Helios at level 42, which is not only a better synced healing experience but actually lets newer players move away from helios earlier. Having asp helios in aurum vale is especially appreciated vs white mage who gets medica ii at level 50 and thus cant use it in aurum vale, making locksmith more trouble than it should be.

    - AST gets its core gameplay mechanic at lv 30 (draw), and said gameplay mechanic is fully functional at level 50 (divination + MA). This means they have more time to master said mechanic. If anything the mechanic feels lacking without sleeve draw at level 70, so thats an area of opportunity to fix. Contrast this with a black mage unlocking fire iv at level 60, drastically changing their rotation from that level onward, and not even getting to practice it when they do leveling roulettes unless they get stormblood duties or gubal library.

    Now ill give BLM as an example of a job that builds up and level syncs wrong. Up until lv 30 it does things decently, however:
    - At level 34 BLM gets fire iii, but they dont even get a third stack of astral fire until lv 40. This just confuses a new player when they get the skill, as the skill does not do anything useful at that point and youre better off continuing to use transpose to switch to and from fire and ice, and firestarter isnt a thing until level 42.
    - At level 40 they finally get 3 stacks of astral/umbral, and they will be doing the same single target rotation all the way until level 59. Transpose is instantly deprecated the moment they get the Magick and Mend II trait, which by virtue of being a trait and not a skill might not make people realize their rotation has changed drastically.
    - at level 58 BLM gets blizzard iv, and has the same issue as fire iii, namely that it does nothing at the level you get it. using it for umbral hearts is a dps loss if you dont have fire iv. So instead of the skill complementing the core rotation, it just confuses players and sets a bad precedent BEFORE they get to the core rotation.
    - BLM gets fire iv at level 60, changing their rotation drastically once again, and new people might not realize why or how. Fire iv doesnt refresh astral fire so youll see a lot of new black mages either letting it drop because every other fire spell until that point has refreshed fire. What used to be the rotation for 59 levels (fire 1 spam) now becomes punishment for failing it. Whats worse, most synced content is below level 60, so they wont even be able to practice their new rotation frequently.

    And thats only for single target, for aoe BLM spams fire 2 until they get umbral hearts, which again drastically changes the rotation and makes fire 2 not worth using anymore despite being the entire rotation for 67 levels. Not only that but spamming freeze is actually better than using fire 2 until level 49, which goes against everything blm has been saying since its thaumaturge days of Fire > Ice.

    In conclusion, the early level experience would be greatly improved for both new and old players alike if skills are rearranged so that they always have an use at the level they get it. Every dps class should get an aoe since sastasha and jobs should unlock the core parts of their rotations earlier on so that new players have more time to master them.
    (6)

  2. #2
    Player
    Eloah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    2,843
    Character
    Toki Tsuchimi
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 100
    Ironically, I was working on a post with a similar premise, but was trying to figure out a way of organizing it. I can post a snippet here regarding some of the criteria I came up with

    Basic Requirements:
    All Jobs:
    ● Anything integral to the jobs/roles identity should be acquired by or before level 15 (by this I mean things like core role actions, Tank Stance, Pets for SMN/SCH, Greased Lightning, Astral Fire/Umbral Ice, Dualcast, Dances, etc)
    ● Any gimmicks that are unique to that job should be introduced between level 30-50 (by this I mean what the Job will be known for. It might align with their identity from 1-15 of be more unique. Things like AST cards/sects, Regens on WHM, Shields on SCH, Mudras, Jumps, Sen, Songs, Heat Gauge/Turret, etc)
    ● A rotation that slowly upgrades as you hit each level cap, and doesn't make you feel "gated" for not being at a level cap. (Basically, the job should feel complete at level 50, and get progressively "better" with each level cap. The new MCH is a perfect example of this as it feels complete starting at level 50)

    To add to this but not go into too much detail, each job/role should have certain abilities at certain level ranges. These abilities don't need to be a 1:1 ratio, but should function similarly. Case in point, at level 15 SCH is the only healer without an AoE heal. Simply shifting Whispering Dawn to level 15 would fix that issue. Granted, Sastasha is the only dungeon where this skill isn't available, but it's still odd. Additionally, having certain skills at some levels make no sense. You can use Diurnal Sect at level 30, but it doesn't "do anything" until level 34.

    Reshuffling some skills so they make more sense would be a great thing.
    (3)
    I like helping people with their Job ideas, it's fun to help them visuallize and create the job they'd like to play most. Plus I make my own too, I'll post them eventually.

  3. #3
    Player
    Liam_Harper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Posts
    3,470
    Character
    Liam Harper
    World
    Zodiark
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 90
    Quote Originally Posted by QooEr View Post
    A valid concern could be, "wouldnt this overwhelm new players?", but im not referring for more skills to be added at lower level
    Honestly I doubt it would.

    New players don't start with a single braincell and accumulate more as they progress in the MSQ. They're also capable of counting past 2, even at low levels. At the least you should get the full 1-2-3 combo, one oGcd, your aoe ability and healers should get a st heal, aoe heal, st instant heal, st oGcd by lv15 Satasha.

    The Devs mentality that 1, 2, 3, an occasional oGcd and a single button for aoe would explode new players brains is ridiculous. ScH doesn't unlock some basic abilities, like Succor, for ages and some classes don't get to aoe until after 40. I'd give new players a reasonable basic toolkit fairly early on.
    (6)

  4. #4
    Player
    Rollout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Ul'Dah
    Posts
    189
    Character
    Roxanne Steele
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 90
    I had similar thoughts along these lines. Stuff like giving melee classes all their weaponskill combos at level 1, or giving each of the weaponskills quickly as they level up, so they can get a feel for the rotation. Then, at level 30, they get extra stuff related to their job.

    Using Gladiator as an example, give them Fast Blade, Riot Blade, Rage of Halone and Goring Blade before level 15. Reduce Goring Blade's initial potency below Rage of Halone's and maybe even reduce the potency of all of the weaponskills by half, so enemies can survive longer to actually get through the whole combo and let the DoT tick for a while. At level 30, give them a neutered version of Requiescat that's only an oGCD that does more damage with the more MP you have; this'll teach them to use it when their MP is high. At level 35, give them Holy Spirit, so they can see that it does a lot of damage and is worthwhile to use, but you should use Requiescat before it so you get the most damage out of that. Viola, by level 35, players can have the basic rotation of Paladin down.
    (0)