The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

[Onizuka]

So the best is to exp all classes and do what the situation/fight needs. End of the day it really doesn't take long to bring a class from 0 to 50; instead of wasting time waiting for a party to accept you as MNK, you could just invest that time to exp a job useful enough, so to be accepted into any /shout party, next time.

This is sooooooooooooooo wrong. I couldn't agree less. This is not at all “the best” way to solve the problem. If this is really what the devs have in mind, then I would like them to officially state it.

Playing a Class you've no interest about is incredibly wrong. I firmly believe that in a world like Eorzea we should always do what we like doing. That's a big point in my philosophy in Eorzea.
If the game forces to play with other Classes to properly enjoy those contents, then I'll gladly stay with my crafting & gathering until the end of time with Spekkio. 4 Black Mages clearing the Aurum Vale spamming Flare with /countdown and then switching to Monk for the Final Boss => No thanks.

What you said is just the trend that Final Fantasy XIV is falling into, also due to the easiness in leveling up: have all the battle Classes at level 50 (I spoke about this in another Topic, but was partly misunderstood), and in party switch to the one needed by the party, rather than the one you would like to play with.
If the masses like this direction, good for them, but I prefer to have my Class identity and level up a Class only if I feel like doing it.

After reading your post, just a few minutes ago I felt like doing another test, seeing a known adventurer with an instanced raid request in the Party Interface. Part of the conversation:

Him: time atakk very hard
Me: Hai... Watashi wa Monk desu... [Yes... I'm a Monk...]
Me: Monk in Instanced Raid => No thanks... :-(
Me: Demo...! Bouken + Chousen, I'm interested.! [But...! Adventure + Challenge, I'm interested!]
Him: soudesune ^^ [I see]
Him: White mage Can you do it?
Me: LVL 50 Monk only... /panic
Him: Monk hard White mage easy
Me: Hai... That's too bad... /panic
Me: Conjurer LVL 30
Him: Good luck!＾＾
Me: no Monk?
Him: cooperation hard
Me: Understood.
Him: cooperation easy White mage
Me: Good luck!
Him: I'm sorry.
Him: See you again!
You leave the party.

Easy easy easy! Ooook! This was just a test to give an idea of the conversations of last week's experiment, I wasn't really in combat mood today, anyway.
I'm still in Gridania crafting near the Black Tea Brook and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Adventurers simply want easy stuff and the fastest way to clear those pointless Speed Runs. I cannot force them to believe that there might be something more important than a Super Gear: if they don't have much time to spend in Eorzea and the contents to get that gear are badly designed, then I can't blame them if they just want to do them with the more suited Classes. I wonder if they really enjoy this AoE routine, though...

Like I said in the first post, if the system stays as is, it won't be me to join the masses nor the trend, but I'll still enjoy my time in Eorzea without doing the contents my level 50 Discipline of War is not requested/suited for.


When 2.0 will be released, I'll write another review for the game and I wouldn't like to say “Certain Classes are penalized for some of the endgame contents and therefore you're forced to level other ones you might not have an interest into in order to play those contents.”, it would be in the cons, and a big one.
I hope the devs will see the light and balance the current system by then.

Well, nothing else to add to what I said in the first post, we'll see how this shall turn out as time flows.

[Tango]

I think the point was already made that AV/CC should not be balanced for every job. We all screamed for class identity and we finally have it. Each job is most useful at specific points inside AV/CC
blm-AV coincounter, sleepga adds @ mistress, burn chimera, aoe trash
whm-everywhere
war-tank everywhere
drg-princess
mnk-mistress
brd-everywhere
pld-shafted

I hope that at least by 2.0 some adjustments will be made to bring more balance in the instanced raids, that's all I'm asking for. If this is not possible then I'd ask for an official statement of Yoshida saying that one Discipline of War at max level is not enough to do all the endgame contents like he originally stated, the situation right now for a Monk trying to find a Princess-Chimera party in Cutter's Cry (and like I said I also started to get refusals for the Vale, due to other Jobs being more requested for the Speed Run)

People in this thread have shown examples of how any job is more then capable of being productive and producing speed runs. You are never going to get the community to agree with you though. You don't need more jobs at 50 to experience the content available, you need to find ppl who are willing to deal with a less then optimal party setup for speed. If you had blm and pgl you could be very effective in every fight we have so far. I would suggest doing blm to 50 for the sheer utility of having 2 jobs. Nothing wrong with some diversity and considering you can take jobs 1-50 in days/weeks rather then what used to take months+ there is no reason not to.

[Klive]

The fact it takes seconds to change a class doesn't help this matter. I've never played an MMO where I can go from a paladin to a mage in seconds before. Why work with a class when you change your class to fit the setting?

EDIT: Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if our ability to change class was restricted at some point.

[Rydin]

@Cloudio Onizuka - Excalibur in the building!!!!!

I do agree though... it's time to stop blaming the community or even the classes/jobs

It's the content.. the encounters could be designed much better

Yes you can do a run with one of every class....

But if the best linkshells take 24 minutes in a dungeon with a diverse group and 18 minutes class stacked...
What do you expect the community to do?

If Ifrit takes 5-8 minutes or 3 minutes with a mage burn... what are they going to do?
in reality... people very rarely take "The Scenic Route" to work

[Xoo]

Excellent post OP. I actually read the whole thing. It's unfortunate that Warrior, Black Mage and their old class counterparts have been the only two classes to shine since they nerfed Archer way back when. Lancer, and even more so Monk? Shyeah. Forget about it. This is another reason I quit; Two of my most favored jobs have been shit on repeatedly almost from day one. Gladiator and Pugilist.

[Rydin]

Excellent post OP. I actually read the whole thing. It's unfortunate that Warrior, Black Mage and their old class counterparts have been the only two classes to shine since they nerfed Archer way back when. Lancer, and even more so Monk? Shyeah. Forget about it. This is another reason I quit; Two of my most favored jobs have been shit on repeatedly almost from day one. Gladiator and Pugilist.

Gladiator has had it's OP moments....
That's the issue... sometimes SE goes from one extreme to the other....

[Rydin]

What about this:

Imagine a boss who had a shield... and with that shield, he took very little damage. So you have a DRG use the Vorpal thrust>Impulse Drive>Chaos Thrust Combo. If the chaos thrust is executed on the shield arm side, you get the message "Shield arm appears weak and shaky"
When that happens... a WAR uses Maim>Godsbane on the shield arm and the arm falls, Defense is reduced 40% but attack speed increases 10%
those are arbitrary numbers... The point is you make the fight doable but very difficult without completing the special objective... and easier but still tough when you do complete the optional objective
He still wouldn't be an easy fight with the incap but he'd go from being stupid hard to just hard.

Then when his HP fell below 20% he'd put up a magic Ice paling. The only way to repel the magic paling is with a Battle regimen that had (in this order) fire, wind and then concussive blow
Fire to weaken the ice, wind to intensify the flames and concussive blow to shatter the paling
With the paling down... his defense and magic defense go down 25%
(again arbitrary number enfeeble, but you get what I'm saying)
You could make the debuff 50% decrease in defense... whatever....

At 10% HP, his regen increases. The only way to mitigate that is with Piercing arrow>gloom Arrow>Bloodletter combo
Once again... you can beat him without that. It is just noticeably tougher

The point is you could go into the fight with 5 of whatever class deals damage the best at the time, but without being able to complete the optional objectives, you're in for one hell of a fight.

Also by making multiple objectives in 1 fight... you allow for different parties to fight it their way.

You can say "We don't have a marauder for the shield incap... but thats ok, we've got the other 2 incaps covered.
Or "We don't have an Archer for the 'Final Blow' incap, but we've got a strong DPS team and we can do the Shield and magic paling incaps so we should be good.

This way, you could take a very mixed party and have fun on NMs
Instead of
/shout Ifrit party, 3/8, need thaums only

[LillithaFenimore]

Monk isn't a viable class in the two new dungeons because of BLM, WAR, their AOE, and people's inability to try new setups for dungeons / invite people who aren't those classes.

So basically what you are saying...class favoritism all over again...sorta like what you see in all MMO's...the dilemma of balancing...

[Madruk]

Basically Rydin's example is the only way you'd force class versatility. Players will always choose the path of least resistance given a choice. Who can blame them when you have to run the same thing 1000 times over. By the 10th time you want to get it done as efficiently as possible.

[Rydin]

Basically Rydin's example is the only way you'd force class versatility. Players will always choose the path of least resistance given a choice. Who can blame them when you have to run the same thing 1000 times over. By the 10th time you want to get it done as efficiently as possible.

Yea... it boils down to whether you want class stacking so parties will be looking for all 1 class...
Or diversity by necessity... in which parties will be looking for one of everything....

Although, in my example, I do feel like people would be less reluctant to go with less than ideal setups
And also in my example... no one class can complain that they can NEVER get invites...

Then the point remains... Do you make EVERY single encounter like this?
Or is this only an issue now because we get 1 or 2 pieces of content per patch... so if someone's Job is not preferred on, say, Garuda... then 1.22 becomes a death patch for them