The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

[Chardrizard]

I have been tanking chimera as PLD, yes you will end up with slower chimera kill, but it is safer with PLD due to the amount of hate they can generate without the fear of WHMs overcuring and messing up positioning and still achieve speedrun with no issue.

[Onizuka]

Very well detailed post.

I agree with everything you said, but I need to make just one point.

Nothing beats MNK's single target DPS.

So while MNK isn't ideal for the waves of mobs in the new dungeons, they rock FACE when they are allowed to go all out on a single mob.

Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I like Monk so much. At least on single opponents I can give it all.

About some of the other comments, like I said in the first post I'm absolutely sure that clearing Cutter's Cry with a Monk is doable, but there're the matters I already mentioned, now quoting another adventurer:

This isn't terribly helpful at all considering you "making your own party" would still have you trying to convince people to join a group that isn't doing it the "efficient", speed run easy mode way. So you'd still be sitting there with no bites unless you played only with LS members who weren't jerks.

What would be helpful is if A: Community stopped wanting only the easy mode way of doing things and were willing to actually try new setups and strategies and B: SE stopped promoting class stacking, AoE and ranged class spam.

So, again...

1. It may take a lot of time to “go against the rule”, and it's the time of 7 other adventurers.

2. The average party aims only for the speed run and asks for the usual Jobs.

That video of the Aurum Vale's run with every Job is not something common and that the average adventurer would accept to do. It's going against what the developers had apparently in mind for the instanced raids: Speed Runs AoE Feast.
But I, for one, would prefer over 9000 more a party like that, with 2 White Mages and every other adventurer with a different Job and their shiny AFs, rather than those AoE party that are the trend and that are utterly boring for my Class (like that example I did for my last Aurum Vale party). Even if I manage to find a group, doing almost nothing during the whole run (the others do it for me, as shown in the video I posted with the 4x Flare) and only against the Final Boss is not my definition of Adventure... And, once again, I don't know how even “who has the right Class” can enjoy this AoE routine every single time.


I hope that at least by 2.0 some adjustments will be made to bring more balance in the instanced raids, that's all I'm asking for. If this is not possible then I'd ask for an official statement of Yoshida saying that one Discipline of War at max level is not enough to do all the endgame contents like he originally stated, the situation right now for a Monk trying to find a Princess-Chimera party in Cutter's Cry (and like I said I also started to get refusals for the Vale, due to other Jobs being more requested for the Speed Run).

But if they acknowledge that maybe there's something not right in the current situation of “AoE feast-Speed Run” and if that means to drastically change it, judging by the replies to this thread I've a feeling I won't be the only one to /joydance in his Subligar (and if you don't have a Subligar, I can always make one for you).

/fingerscrossed!

[Arcell]

Unfortunately it's very hard to balance all encounters for all classes/jobs to be equally useful. However there are some fights that Monk is good at. Ifrit, Moogle and Aurum Vale are some of the areas where Monk shines. Hell I've hit top damage in my group on Ifrit and was a close second last night on Moogle (due to a few miscalculations of mine) and I'm not even using super awesome gear. A skilled Monk can do some really amazing damage in the right situations. Unfortunately Cutter's Cry is really one of those situations that is not optimal for Monk. With all the multi-target mess and AoE damage Monk is really not a great choice.

That being said, I do agree with you that you shouldn't be forced to level multiple other jobs you don't care about just to clear the content because of optimal (and in this case almost required) party setups. I mean I remember when Darkhold came out and PGL was my only 50. For the first few wins, most people didn't know how to do a lot of it without all ranged. So I would just sit around and Accomplice people who were high on hate. It sucked.

[Cross]

I agree with OP in nearly all aspects.
At this time MNK seems to be in a disadvantage as a single-target DD cause this game is made to have a crowd-orientated battlesystem.

[Tango]

And in that 4.5k HP set on PLD you could be wearing a 5k HP set on WAR. I'm interested if enmity generation is better against chimera/ifrit as a PLD vs WAR that is all I care about. Enmity caps. I have been meaning to redo my enmity table in the BG parser and add in an enmity table but then ppl wear enmity gear and it all gets messed up.

[Klive]

I see three reasons why we currently class stack.

1) Instance Raid timer. You have 60 minutes to do a raid. Trying something new wastes a lot of time with this setup. You try something new and it fails on a boss, you are not getting your speed run. It could go so far that you use up your 60 minutes and have reset the instance with a reenter cooldown. In other MMOs, I can try a boss as long as I want and get through parts of the instance as long as I want to try. Forcing me to leave after a timer encourages me not to experiment, for it my wastes my precious time and I get booted out of the place. In short, SE has created a punishment system for not using the known class stacking plan because experimenting and failure is heavily punished.

2) Lock out timer for failures. Why do we get a time out for a failure? We failed the raid, so we can't play again until I think about why I failed? What am I? Five? I already failed, possibly wiped with equipment damage, and didn't get any final boss or primal loot. Do we really need another punishment? I play this game to have fun with my free time, not to wait for a cooldown timer for a punishment.

3) Speed Runs. To get all loot, you must meet an arbitrary time limit. Well, I want all loot, who doesn't? This really just reenforces the previous two issues. You don't meet this tighter time restraint, you can't have all the fun loot.

Why does this encourage class stacking? You loose too much for not doing it.

[Klive]

The fact it takes seconds to change a class doesn't help this matter. I've never played an MMO where I can go from a paladin to a mage in seconds before. Why work with a class when you change your class to fit the setting?

EDIT: Honestly, I wouldn't be shocked if our ability to change class was restricted at some point.

[Rydin]

@Cloudio Onizuka - Excalibur in the building!!!!!

I do agree though... it's time to stop blaming the community or even the classes/jobs

It's the content.. the encounters could be designed much better

Yes you can do a run with one of every class....

But if the best linkshells take 24 minutes in a dungeon with a diverse group and 18 minutes class stacked...
What do you expect the community to do?

If Ifrit takes 5-8 minutes or 3 minutes with a mage burn... what are they going to do?
in reality... people very rarely take "The Scenic Route" to work

[Xoo]

Excellent post OP. I actually read the whole thing. It's unfortunate that Warrior, Black Mage and their old class counterparts have been the only two classes to shine since they nerfed Archer way back when. Lancer, and even more so Monk? Shyeah. Forget about it. This is another reason I quit; Two of my most favored jobs have been shit on repeatedly almost from day one. Gladiator and Pugilist.

[Rydin]

Excellent post OP. I actually read the whole thing. It's unfortunate that Warrior, Black Mage and their old class counterparts have been the only two classes to shine since they nerfed Archer way back when. Lancer, and even more so Monk? Shyeah. Forget about it. This is another reason I quit; Two of my most favored jobs have been shit on repeatedly almost from day one. Gladiator and Pugilist.

Gladiator has had it's OP moments....
That's the issue... sometimes SE goes from one extreme to the other....