The Chimera, the Monk and the Guard

[Aistaraina]

You shouldn't need every class/job leveled to experience all that end game content has to offer; including speed runs!

You don't have to?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVlLSzCff_o
All jobs speed run. It's entirely possible with varying setups, just the chance of a PUG pulling it off are very unlikely.

do not punish those for simply playing. Mandating that Darklight body gear only drops from speed run is the primary cause of this particular case of classism.

This is like saying you should've gotten E.Body simply for camping, but never getting claim/kill.

[DeadRiser]

A long post and I actually read every bit of it. I can't like this post enough and hope this gets fixed, TA or another wayto get the last chest becomes available besides TA, along with the community and it's views on class stacking.

[Rogue]

People have been complaining about this since darkhold and nothing has changed..

i think you should either accept it or just stop playing because i dont see it changing... the devs keep designing fights with either huge AOE or 5+ mobs enaged at once- in those two situations melee are no where near as efficient as blm or even brd... and as the devs keep designing content like that patch after patch i would say that is their style and will most likely stick to it.

unless they offset melee vulnerability with increased DPS (AOE and single target) which so far they havent seen a need to do... but even so- having 10x the dps is not much use if you get one shotted consistantly from mob AOE. (looks at chimeara)

[Onizuka]

So the best is to exp all classes and do what the situation/fight needs. End of the day it really doesn't take long to bring a class from 0 to 50; instead of wasting time waiting for a party to accept you as MNK, you could just invest that time to exp a job useful enough, so to be accepted into any /shout party, next time.

This is sooooooooooooooo wrong. I couldn't agree less. This is not at all “the best” way to solve the problem. If this is really what the devs have in mind, then I would like them to officially state it.

Playing a Class you've no interest about is incredibly wrong. I firmly believe that in a world like Eorzea we should always do what we like doing. That's a big point in my philosophy in Eorzea.
If the game forces to play with other Classes to properly enjoy those contents, then I'll gladly stay with my crafting & gathering until the end of time with Spekkio. 4 Black Mages clearing the Aurum Vale spamming Flare with /countdown and then switching to Monk for the Final Boss => No thanks.

What you said is just the trend that Final Fantasy XIV is falling into, also due to the easiness in leveling up: have all the battle Classes at level 50 (I spoke about this in another Topic, but was partly misunderstood), and in party switch to the one needed by the party, rather than the one you would like to play with.
If the masses like this direction, good for them, but I prefer to have my Class identity and level up a Class only if I feel like doing it.

After reading your post, just a few minutes ago I felt like doing another test, seeing a known adventurer with an instanced raid request in the Party Interface. Part of the conversation:

Him: time atakk very hard
Me: Hai... Watashi wa Monk desu... [Yes... I'm a Monk...]
Me: Monk in Instanced Raid => No thanks... :-(
Me: Demo...! Bouken + Chousen, I'm interested.! [But...! Adventure + Challenge, I'm interested!]
Him: soudesune ^^ [I see]
Him: White mage Can you do it?
Me: LVL 50 Monk only... /panic
Him: Monk hard White mage easy
Me: Hai... That's too bad... /panic
Me: Conjurer LVL 30
Him: Good luck!＾＾
Me: no Monk?
Him: cooperation hard
Me: Understood.
Him: cooperation easy White mage
Me: Good luck!
Him: I'm sorry.
Him: See you again!
You leave the party.

Easy easy easy! Ooook! This was just a test to give an idea of the conversations of last week's experiment, I wasn't really in combat mood today, anyway.
I'm still in Gridania crafting near the Black Tea Brook and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Adventurers simply want easy stuff and the fastest way to clear those pointless Speed Runs. I cannot force them to believe that there might be something more important than a Super Gear: if they don't have much time to spend in Eorzea and the contents to get that gear are badly designed, then I can't blame them if they just want to do them with the more suited Classes. I wonder if they really enjoy this AoE routine, though...

Like I said in the first post, if the system stays as is, it won't be me to join the masses nor the trend, but I'll still enjoy my time in Eorzea without doing the contents my level 50 Discipline of War is not requested/suited for.


When 2.0 will be released, I'll write another review for the game and I wouldn't like to say “Certain Classes are penalized for some of the endgame contents and therefore you're forced to level other ones you might not have an interest into in order to play those contents.”, it would be in the cons, and a big one.
I hope the devs will see the light and balance the current system by then.

Well, nothing else to add to what I said in the first post, we'll see how this shall turn out as time flows.

[Guevara]

This is sooooooooooooooo wrong. I couldn't agree less. This is not at all “the best” way to solve the problem. If this is really what the devs have in mind, then I would like them to officially state it.

Playing a Class you've no interest about is incredibly wrong. I firmly believe that in a world like Eorzea we should always do what we like doing. That's a big point in my philosophy in Eorzea.
If the game forces to play with other Classes to properly enjoy those contents, then I'll gladly stay with my crafting & gathering until the end of time with Spekkio. 4 Black Mages clearing the Aurum Vale spamming Flare with /countdown and then switching to Monk for the Final Boss => No thanks.

What you said is just the trend that Final Fantasy XIV is falling into, also due to the easiness in leveling up: have all the battle Classes at level 50 (I spoke about this in another Topic, but was partly misunderstood), and in party switch to the one needed by the party, rather than the one you would like to play with.
If the masses like this direction, good for them, but I prefer to have my Class identity and level up a Class only if I feel like doing it.

After reading your post, just a few minutes ago I felt like doing another test, seeing a known adventurer with an instanced raid request in the Party Interface. Part of the conversation:


Easy easy easy! Ooook! This was just a test to give an idea of the conversations of last week's experiment, I wasn't really in combat mood today, anyway.
I'm still in Gridania crafting near the Black Tea Brook and I wouldn't want to be anywhere else.

Adventurers simply want easy stuff and the fastest way to clear those pointless Speed Runs. I cannot force them to believe that there might be something more important than a Super Gear: if they don't have much time to spend in Eorzea and the contents to get that gear are badly designed, then I can't blame them if they just want to do them with the more suited Classes. I wonder if they really enjoy this AoE routine, though...

Like I said in the first post, if the system stays as is, it won't be me to join the masses nor the trend, but I'll still enjoy my time in Eorzea without doing the contents my level 50 Discipline of War is not requested/suited for.


When 2.0 will be released, I'll write another review for the game and I wouldn't like to say “Certain Classes are penalized for some of the endgame contents and therefore you're forced to level other ones you might not have an interest into in order to play those contents.”, it would be in the cons, and a big one.
I hope the devs will see the light and balance the current system by then.

Well, nothing else to add to what I said in the first post, we'll see how this shall turn out as time flows.

I agree with you, man and I'd be one of those people accepting you into a CC party if you reply my shout; I have been spending a lot of time on Ifrit (wiping) after accepting not "ideal" classes into my parties: I am not the "No Thanks, Good Luck" kind of person

What I think is that "shout people" learn a strategy (probably the easiest) and they need that party set-up to win.

So, with time, everyone knows THAT strategy and that is what they seek doing. I think the only way to try and learn a different strategy is having a LS (or Static) to support your trial and error.

Bottom line: you are right saying you want to play what you like, but cannot blame community for not following you.


EIDT: btw you need to exp all jobs in this game due to cross-abilities.

[Altena]

I will be brutally honest, I didn't read all of the OP (I will probably go back for a few giggles as the pictures looked amusing), nor did I venture passed the first couple of pages however:

Monk is a viable but not optimal job for Cutter's. I see it as more of a community issue, rather then a design flaw. Every job can successfully partake in clearing any current content with the right play style and skill level, but that is just it. The reason pick up groups aren't open to using melee in dungeons (leading up to boss fights, and some boss fights themselves) is it requires a degree of play style and skill that is often not present in a pick up group. This is not necessarily the skill of a single player but the compatibility of the players. In a pickup group, people are going to go with the most "optimal" or most sure way of defeating content, for this reason.

I believe that this is not a design flaw, as each job has it's strong and weak points, which makes each job different and interesting. Even comparing 2 similar jobs (MNK and DRG), they both have a moderately different play style, enough to create strong and weak points (i.e.. "Viable" and "Optimal"). A fight such as Miser as an example, MNK destroys DRG in a zerg fight against a mob that is weak to an element due to elemental fists, however the fight is perfectly viable on DRG.

It is differences like these that makes each class different, unique, and interesting to play, viable and optimal, and generally speaking a pick up group is going to go for the optimal setup to ensure victory.

The reverse situation can be said about Miser also - the general setup in that fight is MNK stacking, however BLM stacking is still a viable option.

I believe in order to get the most out of this game, a player should be encouraged to have some degree of diversity to enjoy end-game content. As a linkshell leader, it is sometimes quite difficult to slot people in on their optimal job in order to increase the chance of party success. I strongly encourage people with a limited job selection to play a couple of other jobs and find out what else they like. Sure everyone has a "favourite" job they enjoy playing the most, however sometimes in order to ensure party success - these people have to play jobs that aren't their favourite.

I personally enjoy trying different setups when content gets old and the strategy becomes clockwork. Keeps people fresh and less stale. MNK stacking on Chimera is not only viable, but fun. Same with DRG stacking on Princess. Another fun strategy is switching the conventional 2x BLM's on Garuda with MNK's. Not only viable, but also a very effective option. This also opens up one of the BRD slots if they wish to play another job as that 2nd song isn't a necessity.

However in saying this....

I see it as a little bit greedy to expect others to play jobs that aren't their favourite, just so you can play your favourite job *all* the time.

tldr version; Every class is viable in any current content, and any circumstance, just not necessarily optimal, and does not ensure party success. Pick up groups will always attempt to get this "optimal" setup.

[DoctorMog]

Don't change the MNK class though.

Keep it as king of single target DPS.

Change the CONTENT to work around MNK. Let's see more fights where monk can beast down single targets/semi offtank.

I would like to see evasion tanking (with actual stacked evasion, not utsusemi)

[Rogue]

Don't change the MNK class though.

Keep it as king of single target DPS.

Change the CONTENT to work around MNK. Let's see more fights where monk can beast down single targets/semi offtank.

I would like to see evasion tanking (with actual stacked evasion, not utsusemi)

the only problem is tho 90% of situations in this game is with 5+ mobs.. untill that changes blm and their fire aoe will be prefered... because they are most efficient in 90% of situations.

and when mnks might be usefull in a single mob situation guess what.. its a boss fight and there are 3k dmg flying out every 10 seconds.. so then were back to good ol blm.

unless single target dps is buffed hugely or conversly AOE dps is nerfed.. so if fire does 500dmg each to 3 mobs a mnk should do 1500 single target.. but then why have single target attacks just for the sake of it?. just give each DD job equal potential in situations that occur regularly.

im not saying nothing can/cant be done with any job, im saying why go with anything that isnt the most efficient/easiest.

[DoctorMog]

the only problem is tho 90% of situations in this game is with 5+ mobs.. untill that changes blm and their fire aoe will be prefered... because they are most efficient in 90% of situations.

and when mnks might be usefull in a single mob situation guess what.. its a boss fight and there are 3k dmg flying out every 10 seconds.. so then were back to good ol blm.

unless single target dps is buffed hugely or conversly AOE dps is nerfed.. so if fire does 500dmg each to 3 mobs a mnk should do 1500.. but then why have single target attacks just for the sake of it?. just give each DD job equal potential in situations that occur regularly.

im not saying nothing can/cant be done with any job, im saying why go with anything that isnt the most efficient/easiest.

Magic resistant mobs, resistant to fire damage, in smaller quantities, Monk = teh winsauce.

(Edit: Would like to see some of the above since none exists,)

[Duelle]

Change the CONTENT to work around MNK. Let's see more fights where monk can beast down single targets/semi offtank.

I would like to see evasion tanking (with actual stacked evasion, not utsusemi)

If you create a glancing blows/grazing mechanic for evasion tanking (where grazes and glancing blows mitigate some of the damage coming in), I can get behind that. If you're looking for total damage avoidance, then no.

This is FF. One of the biggest gripes I had with XI and XIV has been that certain classes will be excluded from certain content. I didn't want to play RNG or SMN in XI but guess what? If you wanted the ACP win you were pretty much stuck with a certain setup (pre-uber patch.) It shouldn't be this way but it is and will likely always be.

Only if you sit there and say nothing. It's a bad aspect of FF that works in the single-player RPGs but doesn't in an MMO. SE needs to learn this lesson and grow from it, not remain stuck with something that doesn't work for the sake of being different.