Woah ... Slow down a bit ...

[rance-sama]

damn this is like the 13th alt

That guy is getting nervous that his other alts are getting reported so he made another one.

[Absurdity]

From 1-50, you can get sufficient leveling gear from vendors, or from previous dungeons (remember, you're now guaranteed at least one piece of job-appropriate gear at the end of a leveling dungeon). And from Heavensward on, you're gated by MSQ progression on dungeons anyway. There's no real need to spend tons of gil unless you really want it for glamour.

The low gil is however a consequence of the extremely fast leveling. When leveling still took a lot longer you were simply forced to do side content, be it roulettes, leves or fates, all of which gave extra gil. Now you're basically only chasing the MSQ in hopes to get it up to your actual job level which eliminates all the extra income you would've otherwise had.


It's neither a good nor a bad thing, simply a consequence of the increased exp gain...and for some apparently an issue.

This leads into a larger connected issue, stuff isn't really worth all that much anymore. Back in Stormblood it wasn't just glamour items that were worth significantly more than they are now, making Treasure Maps actually worthwhile, but you also just had random items from all different levels sell for more gil on the marketboard.

[Eriane_Elis]

I think they do that because they think that's how people want to play the game. If you ask me, that's probably right. I think people are used to free-to-play / freemium mobile games and don't know anything else. So being hand-held / visual gratifications at every step is what really entices people, not the reward of completing something difficult. I miss Ultima Online, Everquest and other MMOs like it because there was a sense of accomplishment to have reached a certain point in the game. But modern games tend to smooth sailing with little to no penalties. But, that's because game companies found that penalizing players does not make money, and well who knows better than EA and Blizzard? They mastered the art of casual gaming.

[SavishSalacious]

That guy is getting nervous that his other alts are getting reported so he made another one.

Are you on drugs? Look at my post history.

[TheMightyMollusk]

The low gil is however a consequence of the extremely fast leveling. When leveling still took a lot longer you were simply forced to do side content, be it roulettes, leves or fates, all of which gave extra gil. Now you're basically only chasing the MSQ in hopes to get it up to your actual job level which eliminates all the extra income you would've otherwise had.


It's neither a good nor a bad thing, simply a consequence of the increased exp gain...and for some apparently an issue.

This leads into a larger connected issue, stuff isn't really worth all that much anymore. Back in Stormblood it wasn't just glamour items that were worth significantly more than they are now, making Treasure Maps actually worthwhile, but you also just had random items from all different levels sell for more gil on the marketboard.

Yeah, doing less side content means less gil. I'm just saying, there's no need to spend it on gear while leveling. Hell, even at 80, there's little reason to do it, although Neo Ishgardian gear is dirt cheap right now.

[Jojoya]

But what problem does outleveling the MSQ give you? The problem here seems to be with your perception rather than anything to do in the game itself.

Except it's not even a perception issue. It's the way the game currently works during the early leveling experience.

Players expect gear and jobs to be keeping pace with the content being done. What's the typical reaction when you end up with Cutter's Cry and find a level 41 GLA tanking it in level 18 gear? Players get upset because they feel like the tank is being lazy when the truth is that the game has put that tank in that position with bad design balance.

How do you feel good as a new player when your character is level 41 but the game is primarily giving you level 18 content to do (short of stumbling across the quests for the higher level side dungeons now part of MSQ)? It's almost patronizing, as if the game has already decided you're incapable of doing higher level content at the same time it's awarding you those higher levels.

It is not good design.

It's something that could be partially fixed. Stop awarding bonus XP if the class/job level is greater than the MSQ progression level. I don't need to be getting 300% bonus XP if I'm level 53 but only working on the level 34 MSQ . I can't even get level 53 gear short of spending a half million gil on the MB, which is an amount of gil the level 34 MSQ is not rewarding. I do need that bonus XP is I'm working on the level 53 MSQ and I want a level 34 job to become my main job so I need to get it caught up quickly.

Lock the ARR side dungeons behind MSQ just as all future dungeons are locked behind it. Halatalii- require joining a Grand Company. Qarn and Cutter's Cry - require defeating Titan. Dzamael Darkhold - require Stone Vigil. Aurum Vale and Wanderer's Palace - require Garuda.

While we're at it, lock level 30 MSQ Wrath of the Titan behind completion of a level 30 job quest. That way the player is introduced to the concept of jobs so they'll know that's something they'll need to continue doing, and so they hopefully aren't going into higher level dungeons lacking their full toolkit because they're not doing their job quests.

From 1-50, you can get sufficient leveling gear from vendors, or from previous dungeons (remember, you're now guaranteed at least one piece of job-appropriate gear at the end of a leveling dungeon). And from Heavensward on, you're gated by MSQ progression on dungeons anyway. There's no real need to spend tons of gil unless you really want it for glamour.

How are you going to be able to afford that level 41 gear on the vendors when you've only got 20k gil and still need to worry about things like teleport fees and repairs?

What's the point of getting that job appropriate gear at the end of a leveling dungeon when the dungeon is level 17 awarding level 17 gear and you're level 41?

You should never, ever, ever, spend gil on any gear while doing the MSQ. it gives you dungeons and gear.

Gear at that dungeon's level, not your character's job level.

[linayar]

Except it's not even a perception issue. It's the way the game currently works during the early leveling experience.

Players expect gear and jobs to be keeping pace with the content being done. What's the typical reaction when you end up with Cutter's Cry and find a level 41 GLA tanking it in level 18 gear? Players get upset because they feel like the tank is being lazy when the truth is that the game has put that tank in that position with bad design balance.

How do you feel good as a new player when your character is level 41 but the game is primarily giving you level 18 content to do (short of stumbling across the quests for the higher level side dungeons now part of MSQ)? It's almost patronizing, as if the game has already decided you're incapable of doing higher level content at the same time it's awarding you those higher levels.

It is not good design.

It's something that could be partially fixed. Stop awarding bonus XP if the class/job level is greater than the MSQ progression level. I don't need to be getting 300% bonus XP if I'm level 53 but only working on the level 34 MSQ . I can't even get level 53 gear short of spending a half million gil on the MB, which is an amount of gil the level 34 MSQ is not rewarding. I do need that bonus XP is I'm working on the level 53 MSQ and I want a level 34 job to become my main job so I need to get it caught up quickly.

Lock the ARR side dungeons behind MSQ just as all future dungeons are locked behind it. Halatalii- require joining a Grand Company. Qarn and Cutter's Cry - require defeating Titan. Dzamael Darkhold - require Stone Vigil. Aurum Vale and Wanderer's Palace - require Garuda.

While we're at it, lock level 30 MSQ Wrath of the Titan behind completion of a level 30 job quest. That way the player is introduced to the concept of jobs so they'll know that's something they'll need to continue doing, and so they hopefully aren't going into higher level dungeons lacking their full toolkit because they're not doing their job quests.

Right, so the problem isn't with fast leveling, but with duty and job quest requirements, which I agree.

Reducing exp based on MSQ progress is unnecessary.

[TheMightyMollusk]

How are you going to be able to afford that level 41 gear on the vendors when you've only got 20k gil and still need to worry about things like teleport fees and repairs?

What's the point of getting that job appropriate gear at the end of a leveling dungeon when the dungeon is level 17 awarding level 17 gear and you're level 41?

Why do you need level 41 gear if you're still doing level 20 quests?

If you're talking about just the optional dungeons, that level 17 gear (or the Brand New gear from Hall of the Novice) is fine for Halatali (level 22-ish); which is okay for Qarn (35); which is good for Cutter's Cry (38); which is good for Dzemael Darkhold (44); which is okay for doing your 45 job quests; and combining Darkhold and job gear is fine for Aurum Vale. So yeah, you can get by on dungeon gear if you're short on gil. It's not optimal, especially the jump from Halatali to Qarn, but low-level gear generally has such small increments of improvement as you go anyway that most people won't really notice unless you're a no-cooldowns tank, in which case playing poorly is a bigger problem than gear.

[Iscah]

How do you feel good as a new player when your character is level 41 but the game is primarily giving you level 18 content to do (short of stumbling across the quests for the higher level side dungeons now part of MSQ)? It's almost patronizing, as if the game has already decided you're incapable of doing higher level content at the same time it's awarding you those higher levels.

It is not good design.

All this is on the assumption that people are only going to put all their EXP into one class in a game that encourages you to take up multiple classes. I'd be interested to see the breakdown of who does and doesn't, but I was eagerly picking up new guild memberships as soon as I had access to other cities, and more EXP means more ability to keep multiple classes at MSQ level.

Certainly for any alts I start at this point - or even my current ones midway through Stormblood - I greatly appreciate the extra EXP that lets me get a lot of quest experience into jobs instead of levelling everything through low-level dungeons again.

I also think it's exaggerating to assume people would see this as "patronising" and not "oh, I'm overlevelled".

[SavishSalacious]

Level 50 stuck on quests after titan - by stuck I mean there what level 34-36 quests .... Did my Job quests to 45, need gauruda. This is how fast leveling is these days FYI