Thread: MP next to go with 6.0 maybe?

Originally Posted by Daniolaut

I feel TP should be restored.

The more TP you gain from using weapon skills or using auto attacks, this builds your charges.

Or something more engaging. Combat has become more simple with its removal. I would like to see more customization and depth added, not more things taken.

that would be a completely different system, so it's not "restoring TP" to do that. Now it's certainly not a bad system, but it's not TP.

I mean, at a glance, that sounds similar to the old TP system and FFXI's TP system.

Originally Posted by ADVSS

TP would have worked much better if it was a different game. Instead of weaponskills being big attacks, they became your normal attacks, which made TP your stamina bar, but if they wanted to do that the refill rate wouldve had to be closer to some action/hack and slash games, where you burn it down quick for a moment, and it refreshes lightning fast. This wasnt the case with TP in ARR - since it was a resource that barely ever drained in short lived fights, but it started to show in prolongued fights. If it was used as a technique resource for a really big hit then it would make more sense to do it like it was originally done. Weaponskills, just basically were basic attacks, with auto attacks just being there instead. There wasnt any meaningful reason to use TP outside attacks either. If it was more treated like a resource in the sense, you would probably have things like shelltron spammable, or downright cd to block stuff rectively at a hefty TP cost, not to mention probably some way to roll out of aoes or dodge on command.
Theres nothing inherently wrong with TP as a stamina gauge in and of itself, its just how they handled it that made it akward.

TP would have worked if the classes and jobs reliant on it had be designed with a sustainable rotation, a regenerative rotation and a high cost burst rotation in mind. The sustainable rotation would have been the rotation that dealt the greatest dps in the long run natively as you wouldn't run out of TP while using it, the burst rotation would have the highest average dps while performing it but would drain TP fast enough that it could not be sustained for long, and the regenerative rotation would regain TP quickly but have low enough dps that cycling between the burst and regenerative rotations would deal less on average than the sustainable rotation.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

TP would have worked if the classes and jobs reliant on it had be designed with a sustainable rotation, a regenerative rotation and a high cost burst rotation in mind. The sustainable rotation would have been the rotation that dealt the greatest dps in the long run natively as you wouldn't run out of TP while using it, the burst rotation would have the highest average dps while performing it but would drain TP fast enough that it could not be sustained for long, and the regenerative rotation would regain TP quickly but have low enough dps that cycling between the burst and regenerative rotations would deal less on average than the sustainable rotation.

Ignoring the potential button bloat there this would just mean using the sustainable rotation for whatever the minimal amount of time in a fight would be.

It's like any job with resources, you want to end any given fight as close to zero in everything as you can. If you kill a boss while you have 70 esprit and 2 feathers on DNC you feel bad because it's bad.

This suggestion would basically only impact decision making as far as figuring out the breakpoints for native TP regen based on potential fight timing. You'd then figure out how much of your burst rotation you can feasibly do before hitting zero and... boom, just a different kind of set in stone rotation.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

TP would have worked if the classes and jobs reliant on it had be designed with a sustainable rotation, a regenerative rotation and a high cost burst rotation in mind. The sustainable rotation would have been the rotation that dealt the greatest dps in the long run natively as you wouldn't run out of TP while using it, the burst rotation would have the highest average dps while performing it but would drain TP fast enough that it could not be sustained for long, and the regenerative rotation would regain TP quickly but have low enough dps that cycling between the burst and regenerative rotations would deal less on average than the sustainable rotation.

Basically yeah pretty much. The problem with TP starvation in this game is that we see more and more dps checks, to where winded out fights would become really hard, and some unwinded fights would just take forever that last 20-10% They really arent hiding the fact that dps checks are per usual, and that would just make things downright difficult with how TP was initially done. They gave most dps invigorate, but it was just a bandaid for the situation, esp for high tp use jobs like monk, you go all out and hope the gas doesnt run out. Either like you said, regenerative soft rotation, or just smashing down on the TP with small pauses fully refreshing it at super speed, probably some of the only ways it wouldve worked without completely forcing BRD into every raid group.

Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

The sustainable rotation would be the job's greatest average dps rotation. You would want to maximize use of it not minimize it.

The burst rotation would be a short term dps gain in exchange for a dps loss while you recover from it.

Wouldn't this just be "Sustain until Burst needed, then back to Sustain"? Or are you implying a third rotation for recovery period?

The short and sweet? No. No, MP is never going to disappear, and its silly to even entertain the idea that it will, for multiple OBVIOUS reasons.