Anybody else got tired of scripted fights?

[Absurdity]

Element of randomness in WoW fights? I don't see it, at all... The fights are scripted, that's why they have DBM over there that shows you the timer of all of boss actions. The thing that can add a lot of variables to the fights are not the randomness, but the fact that most fights can be done in different ways, and DPS there have a lot more responsibility than in XIV, which is basically just predict the telegraphs and react to AoE marks accordingly. Basically very linear fights. WoW's bosses also never follow a specific rule, so it's usually harder to be intuitive on what to do, and that I would also think it's an element that make their fights feel less "scripted".

But still yeah, WoW has that over XIV - those elements tend to make the fights more interesting. The downside is that they are much harder to balance, and often a content patch goes through a lot of hotfixes and adjustments.

I think that's exactly it. DBM often only tells you while or after the boss has already started to do a mechanic because on a lot of bosses there is no "sequence" of mechanics, there is a timer on when mechanics could or could not happen, or a completely different mechanic who's timer is ready happens instead.


I think what most people mean with scripted fights in XIV are the fights where you can determine exactly at which minute/second into the pull the boss is gonna do xy mechanic and it will always do this mechanic at the exact same time.

Server ticks are frustrating.

Other things are animation times, like how in WoW you can press an interrupt ability or tank cd at literally 99% of the cast bar and it will work, but in FF you might use it at 80% and take the ability to the face. We all know the "but I pressed Benediction!" memes. Clipping is a big one, you don't really clip oGcds in WoW. There's also the way aoe heals and shields apply to party members 1 by 1, so 6 people might receive the heal and the last 2 die to the raidwide before it gets to them. And then the way Enix only likes to play the attack animation after the damage hit has been registered, so you've ran halfway across the room, appear to have dodged the blast and fall over dead.

I like FF14 but the combat is terribly clunky. Part of optimizing and high end play basically comes down to understanding how the system doesn't work and adjusting to it.

This is pretty much what makes XIV's pvp so utterly unplayable for me, there is no split second interrupt or split second healing to save a teammate, it simply doesn't work.


But their pvp job design would make you think so. Stuns, silences and snares that last maybe 2-3 seconds, very little CC in general and often very high damage spikes in relation to hp, basically exactly the place where you would need to be able to make split second decisions. What you end up with is a pvp design that is actively fighting with the game's combat system.

[linayar]

I think what most people mean with scripted fights in XIV are the fights where you can determine exactly at which minute/second into the pull the boss is gonna do xy mechanic and it will always do this mechanic at the exact same time.

I think that's my favorite part about the fight with bosses when I'm tanking: when certain parts of the fight (depending on group performance) seem to match (from my perspective anyway) where I am on my chosen rotation, it feels really good to me.

[Hatfright]

Video Games in general is about learning patterns.

I don't doubt that, but Absurdity here gives a good point about it:

I think what most people mean with scripted fights in XIV are the fights where you can determine exactly at which minute/second into the pull the boss is gonna do xy mechanic and it will always do this mechanic at the exact same time.

And this is exactly my issue with it. This and almost every mechanic being about positioning. There is position mechanics that I like, Tsuky moon stacks are my favorite, but for the most part it's "don't stay here, you either die yourself or/and drag your whole party with you". And there's no way around it at all, you just have to dance with all those aoes. But how much more fun it would've been if there was a way to stop that aoe dance and to replace it with something else, like healcheck or something, idk. I wish we got more players responsibilities beyond just moving ourselfs from place to place. I wish we could deny bosses their abilities not by just burning their hp down.

[linayar]

But how much more fun it would've been if there was a way to stop that aoe dance and to replace it with something else, like healcheck or something, idk. I wish we got more players responsibilities beyond just moving ourselfs from place to place.

As a non-healer, a heal check is a non-mechanic for me. That's not more player responsibility, just shifting of responsibility.

I wish we could deny bosses their abilities not by just burning their hp down.

We already do, by doing mechanics: stacking, spreading, dodging, mitigating, healing, etc.

[Raikai]

I don't doubt that, but Absurdity here gives a good point about it:

And this is exactly my issue with it. This and almost every mechanic being about positioning. There is position mechanics that I like, Tsuky moon stacks are my favorite, but for the most part it's "don't stay here, you either die yourself or/and drag your whole party with you". And there's no way around it at all, you just have to dance with all those aoes. But how much more fun it would've been if there was a way to stop that aoe dance and to replace it with something else, like healcheck or something, idk. I wish we got more players responsibilities beyond just moving ourselfs from place to place. I wish we could deny bosses their abilities not by just burning their hp down.

Sometimes I wonder if the combat mechanics that are always Positionals / Kill X before bar fills are because of an actual decision of them not to risk the combat design out of their "comfort zone" or it's because of the old sphagetti code structure...

[Dyvid]

And this is exactly my issue with it. This and almost every mechanic being about positioning. There is position mechanics that I like, Tsuky moon stacks are my favorite, but for the most part it's "don't stay here, you either die yourself or/and drag your whole party with you". And there's no way around it at all, you just have to dance with all those aoes. But how much more fun it would've been if there was a way to stop that aoe dance and to replace it with something else, like healcheck or something, idk. I wish we got more players responsibilities beyond just moving ourselfs from place to place. I wish we could deny bosses their abilities not by just burning their hp down.

But that is FFXIV gameplay, dodging. We've had certain dungeon boss fight that just did random but it never really caught on.

Bosses used to be more complex in termes of strategy in ARR (one only needs to go in some <50 dungeons to notice it). The problem with current bosses is that they ve been heavily streamlined since heavensward and a lot of mechanics are being recycled from one boss to another since HW.

Very true but unfortunately the majority of the community couldn't do it. Labyrinth of the Ancients was very mechanic heavy for example. Steps of Faith was another one people couldn't do.

[Dyvid]

Video Games in general is about learning patterns.

[Rufalus]

The way it's being run feels like we're still in year 2 of a new mmo. More things should have changed by now in the 7 years since v2.0, they just don't want to because repetition makes for smoother game development and new players keep pouring in regardless. Plenty more life could be added to this game despite its aging engine, but it would probably need the old guard to step aside and let new blood run with their creative ideas. If the next expansion is still carbon copy gameplay with updated art then I might quit.

[Hatfright]

Bosses used to be more complex in termes of strategy in ARR (one only needs to go in some <50 dungeons to notice it). The problem with current bosses is that they ve been heavily streamlined since heavensward and a lot of mechanics are being recycled from one boss to another since HW.

This exactly.
I love myself a good re-use, but the way it is now, it's not even funny anymore.

[Kaliesto]

I can't remember which Developer said this, but there was something along the lines of keep Familiarity for the players.

Which I don't agree half the time with that statement.

I actually dredge if the side-quests in the next expansion is going to be the same thing.