Is it just me, or does ninja feel like...

[Stormfur]

...a lot of button mashing for very little DPS reward?

I mainly play samurai (easy rotation) and dragoon (not so easy rotation) and I love them. I want to love ninja, but even in a Trust on Holminster, I'm #4 in the DPS list.

In the words of Mr. Biden... COME ON MAN!

Is there an ELI5 guide to ninja out there that isn't a youtube video? something I can print out and muscle-memory it like I did dragoon?

[LeonKeyh]

I don't think so. I think it's one of the middle complexity classes in terms of button mashing. I would argue that SAM is worse in that regard (but I'm still leveling SAM, so who knows). I just don't see it really. NIN seemed to be one of the more straight forward jobs that I've played through. Admittedly, I haven't played much other than DRG at 80, but I've played up to there at least with NIN. Maybe I'm doing something wrong with NIN though, because I felt like the rotation was "missing" something, that there was a little too much "filler" comboing.

[Rufalus]

If dps is low on ninja I would guess the ninjitsu spells are being underused. Need to remember all of those ten chi jin combinations and what each is used for. It's one of the harder jobs to perform optimally but for advanced players it's really nice to still have a job choice that doesn't feel totally braindead to play. I think the Shadowbringers version of ninja is the most fun so far, hopefully it doesn't lose much next xpac.

[LeonKeyh]

If dps is low on ninja I would guess the ninjitsu spells are being underused. Need to remember all of those ten chi jin combinations and what each is used for. It's one of the harder jobs to perform optimally but for advanced players it's really nice to still have a job choice that doesn't feel totally braindead to play. I think the Shadowbringers version of ninja is the most fun so far, hopefully it doesn't lose much next xpac.

Agreed. It is a ton of fun.

Maybe something OP is missing is using the ninjitsu within the trick attack window? At least that was what I had been doing and I ended up fairly high on the aggro list at least. Not saying this is the best rotation, but this is what I used while leveling (Caveat, I've only leveled NIN to 80, then moved on to the next class) :

Pre-pull -
Huton (3 mudra ending with Ten)
Hide to reset mudra
Anything to break hide

Pull:

Suiton (3 mudra ending with Jin)
Trick Attack
Shadow Fang
Kassatsu -> Hyosho Ranryu (2 Mudra ending in Jin with Kassatsu)
Raiton (2 Mudra ending in Chi)
Dream within a Dream
Assassinate
Bhavacakra (If enough Ninki)

At that point just combo until trick attack comes back. Keep Huton up with that combo when needed. You have 1 mudra that you'll use before then. Ideally I use Kaiton, but admittedly, I'll forget to keep Huton up and need to reapply sometimes. Ten Chi Jin should be in there somewhere, but I haven't really figured that out very well. Other than using that 1 mudra, I've just used my normal combos until the next trick attack window.

I'm sure that it's not the ideal combo, but that's _generally_ how I've played it. Make sure you're hitting your positionals too. Normal 1-2-3 combo is rear for the last hit, the Huton reset combo is flank for last hit.

[Eloah]

With it's rework Ninja has actually surpassed Dragoon in DPS potential, making Dragoon the lowest Melee DPS now. Not that the change was significant, it's like Dragoon is 97 and Ninja went from 96 to 98. They also have opposing play styles, Ninja's is low sustain, frequent high burst DPS, and Dragoon is high sustain, infrequent low burst. There support is also on equal footing with Trick Attack for Ninja and Battle Litany and Dragon Sight for Dragoon.

[Xiaoki]

It's only busy once a minute because of Trick Attack and all of the other stuff you do with it.

In between Trick Attack windows it's pretty normal.

Which is annoying if your Trick Attack window aligns with a boss mechanic.

Not great that so much of Ninja's kit revolves around one thing.

[Gemina]

I would need to look at the APM for both NIN and SAM, but I already know that Mudras alone make it higher. The higher the APM, the higher the demand on the player, but this doesn't necessarily mean they should do more damage. However, the damage should be satisfying during burst windows when the button smashing rate increases.

There is no doubt that SAM beats out NIN in overall damage, but I don't really feel like I am working harder for less output on NIN. Especially when I take into consideration how much damage SAM's 100% upkeep on Higanbana contributes. When I factor how satisfying it is use mudras, and can nearly port around the arena at will to do so, it just feels really good to play NIN right now. Ultimately, I feel both are in the right spot according to the demands placed on each of these jobs.

Guides are exactly that. Guides. I can't stress enough that they should be used to help you find your way, and not cement your rotation based on a striking dummy. The best way to improve is on the battlefield. If bosses do things like force Kassatsu to expire, make you move out of TCJ, or not get all your skills into your trick windows, then you have to learn to improvise so this doesn't happen. When you do this, it is very rewarding and I think this applies to most DPS jobs. Especially burst jobs like NIN and SAM.

[Seraphor]

Agreed. It is a ton of fun.

Maybe something OP is missing is using the ninjitsu within the trick attack window? At least that was what I had been doing and I ended up fairly high on the aggro list at least. Not saying this is the best rotation, but this is what I used while leveling (Caveat, I've only leveled NIN to 80, then moved on to the next class) :

Pre-pull -
Huton (3 mudra ending with Ten)
Suiton (3 mudra ending with Jin)
Hide to reset mudra
Anything to break hide

Pull:

Trick Attack
Shadow Fang
Raiton (2 Mudra ending in Chi)
Kassatsu -> Hyosho Ranryu (2 Mudra ending in Jin with Kassatsu)
Raiton (2 Mudra ending in Chi)
Dream within a Dream
Assassinate
Bhavacakra (If enough Ninki)

At that point just combo until trick attack comes back. Keep Huton up with that combo when needed. You have 1 mudra that you'll use before then. Ideally I use Kaiton, but admittedly, I'll forget to keep Huton up and need to reapply sometimes. Ten Chi Jin should be in there somewhere, but I haven't really figured that out very well. Other than using that 1 mudra, I've just used my normal combos until the next trick attack window.

I'm sure that it's not the ideal combo, but that's _generally_ how I've played it. Make sure you're hitting your positionals too. Normal 1-2-3 combo is rear for the last hit, the Huton reset combo is flank for last hit.

Suiton is a damaging move, so it can't be used prepull. (typically you'd use Doton if the arena and tank pull allows for it, otherwise just stick to Huton)
Instead you would Suiton ON pull, pre-enter the mudra's before pull, but after using Hide.

Also, Ten Chi Jin is one of your more powerful skills, not as good as Hyosho Ranryu, but good enough that you want to get it into every other Trick window, replacing one of the Raitons and likely one of your weaponskills as well. You want the Ten>Chi>Jin combo too as that gets you Fuma, Raiton and Suiton, and lines up with your Meisui for 50 gauge.

Ultimately the Trick window is very malleable, so long as you get your hardest hitting moves in there, you can pretty much do them in any order.

[LeonKeyh]

Suiton is a damaging move, so it can't be used prepull. (typically you'd use Doton if the arena and tank pull allows for it, otherwise just stick to Huton)
Instead you would Suiton ON pull, pre-enter the mudra's before pull, but after using Hide.

Also, Ten Chi Jin is one of your more powerful skills, not as good as Hyosho Ranryu, but good enough that you want to get it into every other Trick window, replacing one of the Raitons and likely one of your weaponskills as well. You want the Ten>Chi>Jin combo too as that gets you Fuma, Raiton and Suiton, and lines up with your Meisui for 50 gauge.

Ultimately the Trick window is very malleable, so long as you get your hardest hitting moves in there, you can pretty much do them in any order.

Sorry, you're right. I misremembered that about Suiton. Good call.

[Karshan]

...a lot of button mashing for very little DPS reward?

I mainly play samurai (easy rotation) and dragoon (not so easy rotation) and I love them. I want to love ninja, but even in a Trust on Holminster, I'm #4 in the DPS list.

In the words of Mr. Biden... COME ON MAN!

Is there an ELI5 guide to ninja out there that isn't a youtube video? something I can print out and muscle-memory it like I did dragoon?

Don't know if it was posted already (sorry if it was) but there is written guide up-to-date (credits to The Balance) :
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...MYDT8_K80/edit

More generally speaking, always go to check their discord when you have questions about a class, for all kind of ressources to know how to equip and how to push buttons efficiently in said class.