Short (or not) constructive feedback to the development of the game.

[Alice_Nightingale_Odin]

Based on what I've read here so far, the complaints can be summarized as such: I don't like it because I can't make myself look better than everyone else.

In an mmorpg that is about longivity it can be said the opposite way, you dont like how some things are because you're not allowed to feel as good as someone putting effort into things by doing nothing. Effort, as with life, should be rewarded. Passivity and afking shouldnt. When you give nothing for hard work, people that want something to work towards and not just sit around leaves the game.

[Arillyn]

That sums it for me pretty much as well. I really enjoyed crafting but with a lot of the changes it's rather, meh. I still craft, but not as much as I did before. There were a few high-end crafters in my FC and could make anything for our FC members - which was great because a lot of them didn't craft at all and didn't want to spend the lots of gil on the MB. So we helped each other out. But now everyone can level super fast if they want to and make their own. Which is good I guess? But at the same time, kind of takes away that community feel of helping each other out.

Like I said, I still craft, but nothing like I did before. I know several crafters that just don't much at all anymore. And I still have lots to do in the game as I pretty much do everything except savage and ultimates. But I don't know, some of the long time achievements and things that took time and effort seem to be less overall. Maybe it's just me?

[Liam_Harper]

Based on what I've read here so far, the complaints can be summarized as such: I don't like it because I can't make myself look better than everyone else.

Sure. Why is this a crime?

"I'd like to be able to put in hard work and effort and achieve great things" is looked down on, while "I'd like everything that takes work handed over to me so I can be lazy but still as good as the hard working players" is approved of and honorable. I've never understood why.

The players who like putting effort in rarely tend to be show-offs too. They're the ones who write guides and theorycraft and create useful resources and offer helpful advice. They don't argue everything should be exclusive, they want to help make it inclusive and would rather see more players enjoying their chosen activity too. But the general attitude tends to be that players don't want to put in effort learning those activities and earning their rewards. They'd rather have the activity ripped away entirely from the players that enjoy them and handed over for free instead.

[Arillyn]

Sure. Why is this a crime?

"I'd like to be able to put in hard work and effort and achieve great things" is looked down on, while "I'd like everything that takes work handed over to me so I can be lazy but still as good as the hard working players" is approved of and honorable. I've never understood why.

The players who like putting effort in rarely tend to be show-offs too. They're the ones who write guides and theorycraft and create useful resources and offer helpful advice. They don't argue everything should be exclusive, they want to help make it inclusive and would rather see more players enjoying their chosen activity too. But the general attitude tends to be that players don't want to put in effort learning those activities and earning their rewards. They'd rather have the activity ripped away entirely from the players that enjoy them and handed over for free instead.

I agree with you on this. There are things I've done that not a lot of people had right away. It took time and effort. I don't begrudge people getting those things when the content has gotten easier. I still enjoy mine regardless. I've also gotten things later when things did get easier. I could have gotten them sooner, but I wasn't interested at the time. But I loved seeing other people get those things and using them. I also don't mind long term achievements - I love them! Some I may never get but I don't think they shouldn't exist for those who work towards getting them. I guess I'm old school MMO player lol. I like having some long term things. I don't mind there being things in the game that not everyone is going to have because it take some real effort to get.

I've also noticed that the ones who do put in that effort rarely are show-offs. Do they enjoy the reward? Of course they do but they will often also help others get those things as well whether with guides, videos or doing content with people to help win the battles.

[Amnmaat]

Sure. Why is this a crime?

"I'd like to be able to put in hard work and effort and achieve great things" is looked down on, while "I'd like everything that takes work handed over to me so I can be lazy but still as good as the hard working players" is approved of and honorable. I've never understood why.

The players who like putting effort in rarely tend to be show-offs too. They're the ones who write guides and theorycraft and create useful resources and offer helpful advice. They don't argue everything should be exclusive, they want to help make it inclusive and would rather see more players enjoying their chosen activity too. But the general attitude tends to be that players don't want to put in effort learning those activities and earning their rewards. They'd rather have the activity ripped away entirely from the players that enjoy them and handed over for free instead.

Or it's called having a life outside of FFXIV. This is the holy grail when it comes to making a good mmorpg. Yoshida states correctly that he doesn't like the idea of making an mmorpg which is like a job where you lock people out if they don't have the time to log every day/few days to do prog static sessions. Of course they do have that as a niche part of the game for those who have no kind of real life outside of the game though. The super achiever model of mmorpgs is long dead, that generation of players has passed on into their late 40s and 50s. The changes they've done to gathering and crafting are pushing the game into the right direction. Every time I go into Firmament events or see FC members crafting their own gear, it really shows a good game. They gave the "hardcore" crafters and gatherers things like Diadem, scrips farming, HQ gear, and crafting rankings.

[Alice_Nightingale_Odin]

Or it's called having a life outside of FFXIV. This is the holy grail when it comes to making a good mmorpg. Yoshida states correctly that he doesn't like the idea of making an mmorpg which is like a job where you lock people out if they don't have the time to log every day/few days to do prog static sessions. Of course they do have that as a niche part of the game for those who have no kind of real life outside of the game though. The super achiever model of mmorpgs is long dead, that generation of players has passed on into their late 40s and 50s. The changes they've done to gathering and crafting are pushing the game into the right direction. Every time I go into Firmament events or see FC members crafting their own gear, it really shows a good game. They gave the "hardcore" crafters and gatherers things like Diadem, scrips farming, HQ gear, and crafting rankings.

It does not. I enjoy working towards something over a long time when I get home from work/school. I enjoy working for half a year with friends an hour or two in the evening of a few days per week for things like ultimates. I enjoy always having something worth the time to log on and do whatever little time I have to do. Wanting longtime goals that aint fruitless and rewardless like rankings in the ishgard as it doesnt actually affect anything but a short period of time.

Dont compare having a life with wanting things handed and accessible. Those are normal excuses that can be heard anywhere. Having a few hours per week to play doesnt mean you should be able to be handed everything you want without working for it. I never got that argument. Youll always have things to do in ff, especially if you play that few hours per week, that you really dont need to also have crafters easily accessible without any downsides to do that.

I didnt say easily accessible things were bad. I said that easily accessible things without anything to counterweight the accessibility is bad. Its flawed design. Right now everyone has all the crafters, and the endgame crafting is so simple in a technical term that you don't even need the endgame crafting gear or melds to be able to make them. Thats the flaw. I wouldnt at all mind everyone being max, but I do mind the fact that everyone can craft anything without any actual endgame gear or skill.

I think the solution would be to make the latest tier of items expert crafts + require the pretty much unused specialist system to craft, maybe even make the times you can change per week less. That would be a counter weight and balance the accessibility. A thing that makes the latest and hardest gear actually hard to achieve. Accessibility aint bad in itself, the way they added it without any whatsoever way to counterweight other things for what they took away is. It's just, in my opinion, flawed game design. To have a yin, there has to be a yang.

[SavishSalacious]

the only thing I do not like about crafting is the specific rotation you need to get HQ, this rotation took me months to figure out before some one showed me, from there leveling went from months to days.

[Amnmaat]

It does not. I enjoy working towards something over a long time when I get home from work/school. I enjoy working for half a year with friends an hour or two in the evening of a few days per week for things like ultimates. I enjoy always having something worth the time to log on and do whatever little time I have to do. Wanting longtime goals that aint fruitless and rewardless like rankings in the ishgard as it doesnt actually affect anything but a short period of time.

Dont compare having a life with wanting things handed and accessible. Those are normal excuses that can be heard anywhere. Having a few hours per week to play doesnt mean you should be able to be handed everything you want without working for it. I never got that argument. Youll always have things to do in ff, especially if you play that few hours per week, that you really dont need to also have crafters easily accessible without any downsides to do that.

I didnt say easily accessible things were bad. I said that easily accessible things without anything to counterweight the accessibility is bad. Its flawed design. Right now everyone has all the crafters, and the endgame crafting is so simple in a technical term that you don't even need the endgame crafting gear or melds to be able to make them. Thats the flaw. I wouldnt at all mind everyone being max, but I do mind the fact that everyone can craft anything without any actual endgame gear or skill.

I think the solution would be to make the latest tier of items expert crafts + require the pretty much unused specialist system to craft, maybe even make the times you can change per week less. That would be a counter weight and balance the accessibility. A thing that makes the latest and hardest gear actually hard to achieve. Accessibility aint bad in itself, the way they added it without any whatsoever way to counterweight other things for what they took away is. It's just, in my opinion, flawed game design. To have a yin, there has to be a yang.

If you have a life you don't have to feel like it was addressed to you. Yoshida is the one who has stated what I stated, I just happen to agree with him.

[Adeacia]

Credit where it's due, at least you admitted its all about your egos and wanting to feel superior to everyone else.

I find it funny that people took my comment as kind of an attack when I said nothing negative. Reminds me of a certain group of people its not appropriate to talk about on these forums.

Safe to say that wanting stuff just so you can brag about how good you are (as so many do) isn't something that is worth considering.

[Payotz]

Safe to say that wanting stuff just so you can brag about how good you are (as so many do) isn't something that is worth considering.

So that rules out:

Titles(Soul of War, Multifaceted, Legend, Perfect Blue, Soul of Magic), Mounts, Feast, Ultimate Weapons, HoH rankings, Ishgard Restoration Rankings, the 1v1s in Bozja, Triple Triad tournaments, Chocobo Racing, Mahjong Tournaments, Achievements, Masked Carnival, Jumbo Cactpot, GATEs, and even Fates.

Yeah. With all due respect, the "wanting stuff just so you can brag about it" is basically the whole idea of wanting to do something in an MMORPG.
You see a Legend title, you get inspired to want to be a raider.
You see a Ishgard Restoration title, you get motivation to grind in the Diadem.
You see the dude 1v1ing a big robo in Bozja, you strive to do more for a chance to fight.

It's called being competitive. Almost half of the content in the game is in one way or another, competitive. It's the very nature of an MMORPG.