How Would You Design Red Mage!?

[Eremor]

Well what exactly does it need now? Another back line mage? Maybe, but since they allowed for 2 choices for new jobs in the poll it could be assumed that 2 new jobs are coming. Just from a numbers perspective we have 5 DOW and 2 DOM, so if RDM were slotted under DOM then adding both RDM as well as a back line mage (Arcanist?) at the same time would bring the numbers up to 5 to 4. Similarly we have 4 front line classes and 3 ranged classes so adding RDM and a back line mage would bring that up to 5 and 4 as well, maintaining a similar proportion.

Now as for role-wise, since all the direct debuffing spells were striped from the mages skills there is no dedicated debuffing class (admittedly there isn't a whole lot of need for one since almost every job has some way to inflict some enfeebling status but most of these are either unreliable or undesirable).

Personally I was waiting till they released the results of the poll before advocating my favorite job, if no one voted for Red Mage then all this discussion is somewhat pointless (but considering the popularity of this topic that seems unlikely).

[Haibel]

ou get 15 class abilities 5 job and 5 cross class. I like the idea of bring back some of the removed thm spells

no order implied. Fencer

1 dia
2 bio
3 banish (As a WS with an HP requirement, combos with Dia , combo Effect steals HP based on dmg)
4 scrouge (As a WS with an MP Requirement, Combos with Bio, Combo Effect steals MP based on dmg)
5 Sacrifice
6 Paralyze
7 Silence
8 Slow
9 Sacrament (makes next enfeebling effect Aoe)
10 quick strike (basic ws)
11 quick reflex (parries next attack)
12 wasp sting ( piercing strike after parry, induces poison)
13 Dual Slash (two-fold ws, combo quick strike, Condition from the side. effect gravity. )
14 Stab (ws Combo Quick strike, Condition from the side.)
15 Upswing Stab (WS Combo Stab From the rear, effect imperial)

RDM:

Enchantment: Imbed your blade with Magical enchantment, Astral dmg by day, Umberal by night.
Warlocks ward. Aoe ability, Protect your party from enfeebling effects
Dispel (Removes Mob Enhancement)
Hexa Blade (Ws Six-fold attack, Combo Dual Slash, Lowers defense to Enfeebling Magic )
Barrier: Renders all party members in AOE Immune to all Magical attacks. 15 minute ability

[Duelle]

The problem with RDM being a competent DPS job in addition to debuffing and potentially buffing as well is balance. If RDM parses any where near MNK or even DRG in addition to being able to lock down enemies with potent debuffs (silence, paralyze, etc)

Absolutes should not be part of this equation. And by that I mean Silence, Paralyze, Amnesia and any other debuff that shuts down an aspect of a target. Weakening stats, slowing attacks, slowing casting times, weakening all damage, weakening defenses, weakening resistance to critical hits are fine and fit enfeebling. And can't be used as an excuse for notably lower damage.

then wtf is the point of MNK and DRG?

A guy that hits things with his fists and a guy with a lance that jumps. Neither is RDM, and RDM is like neither. Maybe the player doesn't want to wear a pimp hat and instead likes hitting things with his fists. You're treading awfully close to the hybrid apocalypse nonsense.

That aside, I don't want my favorite job to become the target for idiotic changes after the fact like RDM was during the revamp when it was given A+ enfeebling skill and Refresh to try to justify its place in a party. I don't want it to become a backline-only job. I don't want the sword to collect dust and be looked down upon. As I've said long ago, I did my time as debuff/buff/refresh-bot. Let our job move on to something better, please.

PS: The reason I am so adamant about RDM haviing comparable damage is because it's going to get benched otherwise. FFXI readily proved this, and was aggravated by the fact that people were desperate for heals. Debuffs/buffs/"utility" never make up for lacking damage, and never will. That being said, I agree that better to have no Red Mage at all than to have the mistakes from FFXI repeated here.

Hexa Blade (Ws Six-fold attack, Combo Dual Slash, Lowers defense to Enfeebling Magic )

Fixed. >.>

[Jinko]

PS: The reason I am so adamant about RDM haviing comparable damage is because it's going to get benched otherwise. FFXI readily proved this, and was aggravated by the fact that people were desperate for heals. Debuffs/buffs/"utility" never make up for lacking damage, and never will. That being said, I agree that better to have no Red Mage at all than to have the mistakes from FFXI repeated here.

I agree with this, if you make the class melee you have to make it comparable to other melee it terms of either damage or usefulness otherwise it will just get benched.

We already have situations were X class stacked by 5 plus 2 healers and a tank are occurring, so yea make it matter or don't bother at all.

On the other hand we don't want to see a situation where 5 rdm's go in shock/silence/paralyze the boss to oblivion either lol.

[Duelle]

Well what exactly does it need now? Another back line mage? Maybe, but since they allowed for 2 choices for new jobs in the poll it could be assumed that 2 new jobs are coming. Just from a numbers perspective we have 5 DOW and 2 DOM, so if RDM were slotted under DOM then adding both RDM as well as a back line mage (Arcanist?) at the same time would bring the numbers up to 5 to 4. Similarly we have 4 front line classes and 3 ranged classes so adding RDM and a back line mage would bring that up to 5 and 4 as well, maintaining a similar proportion.

I think a large contributor to the discrepancy between magic and war disciples is that magic in Final Fantasy is very cut and dry. The devs would have to invent other types of magic or play off other types of magic seen in past FFs (Ninjutsu and Geomancy being two examples) and develop them as real magic. Not many seem to realize that, and instead look at it as "War = 5, Magic = 2. Itz n0t ev3n!!1one1!". =/

Personally I was waiting till they released the results of the poll before advocating my favorite job, if no one voted for Red Mage then all this discussion is somewhat pointless (but considering the popularity of this topic that seems unlikely).

Grr...guess I waited too long to reactivate. They had a poll for jobs?

XIV needs a more dynamic mage class than a "combination" class/job. It also doesn't need a melee mage class right now either.

The only reason people want Red Mage right now is for refresh. Having an entire class made and implemented just for Refresh is pretty sad.

There are plenty of opportunities for SE to create a more inventive class/job than Red Mage.

I volunteer Green Mage. Blue Mage as a backrow caster would also work. *nod*

[Tibian]

I think a large contributor to the discrepancy between magic and war disciples is that magic in Final Fantasy is very cut and dry. The devs would have to invent other types of magic or play off other types of magic seen in past FFs (Ninjutsu and Geomancy being two examples) and develop them as real magic. Not many seem to realize that, and instead look at it as "War = 5, Magic = 2. Itz n0t ev3n!!1one1!". =/
Grr...guess I waited too long to reactivate. They had a poll for jobs?

I volunteer Green Mage. Blue Mage as a backrow caster would also work. *nod*

You didn't even have to be registered for the poll. Results should be out relatively soon based on last week's CSR response.

A pure ranged Green/Blue mage would be something I'd be open to seeing, especially Blue Mage. I think Blue suffered a lot in XI due to its ambiguous class identity/role(s).

[Duelle]

You didn't even have to be registered for the poll. Results should be out relatively soon based on last week's CSR response.

A pure ranged Green/Blue mage would be something I'd be open to seeing, especially Blue Mage. I think Blue suffered a lot in XI due to its ambiguous class identity/role(s).

Well, yes. Considering it was tossed in with hopes that it would shut up the Red Mage melee camp...

Wish I had known about that about the poll, though. =/

[Jinko]

I would like to see Blue mage as a ranged also,

Problem with that is stuff like flame breath, 1000's needles, head but all need to be close range

[Volsung]

Give me a whip class that attacks from distance like drg, let it learn WS and abilities naturally, and learn magic from enemies. Give it blu job that focuses on its magic and give it some other goodies, then you will have me as one happy camper.

[Eremor]

Yeah simplistic response, yeah I understand that white and black magic are covered, and yeah there are examples of alternate forms of magic in previous FF games (and previously in XIV as well, Thaumaturge...).

However I still don't agree that RDM needs to be a top-line DPS in order to be accepted in the front lines, there should be a way to make RDM desirable without just turning into another generic DPS slot, not to mention the fact that there isn't any need for another DPS at this time, other roles still need to be filled. So if the general consensus is that Red Mage should be a DPS job (which would be fine with me) then it should certainly be postponed until the second round of job additions.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for the specific build the OP presented, I made my own suggestion in the previous thread which focused more on Enspells. With the traditional spells only being the secondary means of debuffing (due to the crowd control adjustments). A Red Mage that inflicts Defense Down with every hit might be a little more welcome in melee despite the fact his own damage isn't top notch. Which is exactly what I would like out of Red Mage, a support role job isn't about being powerful yourself, it's about making everyone else even better.