A few thoughts on FFXIV

[Xikeroth]

Actually not addressing the entire post is just not addressing the entire post.
You should be happy someone welcomed you with constructive reply.

FFXIV is obviously not the game for you. This game is now playable. Its fun for a lot of people, included me.
Its not an action game. FFXIV is its own breed. SE can't target the entire market on every aspect of the game... those being the most basic aspects: battle system, for example.

Most the people love or like the new system and understand it isn't finished yet. But a minority (you and a few others) strongly dislike it.

I'm not trying to be an ass, just saying that if you don't like first person shooters, you don't play first person shooters: you don't go telling the developers to turn it into a turn based strategy game. If you don't like the successful direction XIV is taking, don't play XIV.

Someone is angry and defensive about my reply. Listen you're "quit and leave" is not an option. As I stated I am a fan of FFXIV and will be staying for now, so get used to it.

Minority? You mean the people that have quit when the game subscription fees kicks in or anyone before that doesn't count? Actually those are the people SE are trying to get back.

They can target as many as possible into their game and that is their perspective and aim otherwise they wouldn't make a big deal or try to market 2.0 as a different game or even launch an E3 trailer.

Actually FFXIV is the game for me, perhaps you only replying to the fact i am making a slightly negative opinion get to you and saying "OMG QUIT" is actually not very smart on your part and I believe is not something SE would support you saying since they want their fans to stick around. I will be sticking around sooooo hate to break it to you there.

You also missed the fact i said that I DO LIKE FFXIV I am only saying where they can improve. Agree or not, doesn't matter to me and I won't lose sleep over it. However others are agreeing with me so clearly I am not the only one disagreeing with you.

[Starlord]

Improve as in " to how you would like to see the game in your eyes" more or less

[Xikeroth]

I agree with you, not Xikeroth.

Its fine you don't agree, but also realize not everyone agrees with you or him either. Everyone can have their own opinion.

[Xikeroth]

Improve as in " to how you would like to see the game in your eyes" more or less

They are points that always have to be improved on as the game improves, both to keep things fresh and to keep up with the competitor.

[Majidah]

Someone is angry and defensive about my reply.

I stopped reading right there.

I tried to be as polite and neutral as I possibly could. I don't know where the heck do you get angry or defensive about my reply. I didn't even take a stand, I just told you that FFXIV's has decided on a direction that you obviously dislike, so you shouldn't play a game you don't like.

So screw whatever you typed afterwards, I'm out of this thread.

[Akumu]

Alright since I have a typical fanboy reply from someone who thinks the game is perfect and can't take a fellow fan being a critic of the same game. This Fan of SE will now pick your post apart.

lmao of course it had to be a "fanboy response" right? Please look through my load of posts dating back to the days these forums first opened up. Then please tell me at least one post where I stated the game was perfect.

1) You can remove positioning in the combo system and still have the game be tactical, the combo positioning system is useless and can be done without since it'll also most likely hurt some classes damage in future encounters rendering that class useless for the fight or just someone that needs to be healed more then the tank.

All MMO boss encounters have tactic to them(in fact, SE has less tactic in most of their boss fights then most other MMOs so there goes FF MMOs are more tactical theory out the window) a lot of movement is needed in most, so where you're getting your information from, I don't know but perhaps you need to do some research. I'll use FFXI as reference even though that was laughable at best when it came to tactic it was a "don't stand here" game in the majority of boss fights or a "I RUN YOU HURT IT" kite system. "Don't stand here" applies to Nidhogg, Fafnir, Byakko just to name a few. Nidgogg and fafnir, don't stand behind it, Byakko only tanks stand in front. Seiryu and Suzaku(provided no chainspell stun) was bind and run. That's not exactly hard.

The only thing that will hinder some jobs in the future will be how SE designs the encounter itself. Tank also already gets priority over everyone yet even when a DD gets blasted the encounter still runs smoothly. A DD only dies in battle because of their own constant mistakes.

The "don't stand here" formula is mostly used in other MMOs anyway. The simple fact that you might have to kite something already makes FF mmos more tactical.

spam spam spam move spam spam spam...

That's the formula so many of those fast paced games run on.

3) If you actually read what I post instead of ripping your hair out that someone actually spoke against a decision made by SE you would notice my "stand behind the mob" comment was more related to Thief if ever released because it kind of just makes sense. However the tank should be the only one ever be in the major damage zone, I'm sorry but that is not only common sense but fact. Until we have something with abilities like Thief's Trick attack, no Damage dealer should ever be in front of major mobs.

I'm far from "ripping my hair out" I just don't agree with most of what you wrote. Disagreement either marks you as a troll or fanboy/whiteknight though, excuse me for forgetting that.

I would love to know how many of your DD buddies stay planted in front of the mob and for how long? Do they only use one combo that doesn't even need to be used? All I do is tank, as it's my favorite role, and have yet to see DD just standing right next to me.

4) Party > Solo? Well sorry but millions of people disagree with you and would rather solo, specially if they only have a couple hours to play since they can get on, go solo and get something done or sit around in Ul'Dah bored waiting for a shout or an invite.

Sorry but Solo play when it comes to gaining levels is far more likes and practiced. Also after getting a large number of jobs to level cap in FFXI the LAST thing I want to do is join a party to level in this game. For NMs raids and such yeah party all the way, but you shouldn't have to party to level quickly and enjoy the experience.

The game is supposed to be about adventure and friends so PARTY > SOLO is the design. Unlike FFXI you can solo pretty damn well and make good progress every few hours you have. The change to leves and how they accumulate up to 99 have done me a great justice when soloing a class up to 50.

You also fail to realize just how there are millions that want to solo there are also millions that want to party and actually embrace their community. There are already a ton of games for those soloing millions so why do the other base need to be constantly giving the shaft?

6) The community asked for something, and yes I admitted the job requirements for classes weren't a bad idea, however linking one class to another is not that great an idea. I never said them adding jobs was a bad idea. I said how its done isn't exactly the best and can cause some mild confusion for people who might want to get the game but haven't decided on it. There is something a teacher used to say to us in highschool "K.I.S.S. Principal, stands for Keep It Simple Stupid" While I am calling no one stupid, SE should look into keeping things like this simple.

Huh? What exactly is so hard about it? The only, I guess, radical change from class -> job is a ARC/BRD.
The system is already simple and if someone has such a hard time getting it then maybe it's not the creator that's stupid?

7) That is once again an issue that needs to be addressed, what's the point of having a paladin if they can't keep up to damage with a warrior (who you claim gets out damaged by damage dealers I assume easily by how you put it) If they are both made to be tanks, they both should have rather similar damage ability. Again, keep it simple not flood it with a useless gray area.

I'm just going to state that PLD is underpowered in its style of tanking a lot more than it is WAR is overpowered in general. They each have their own way of tanking and PLD falls short at it's way right now.

I'm not up for the PLD vs WAR debate. There are already threads for this, which is why I skipped the previous statement.

8) You can disagree all you want, them putting AF in raids is a poor concept at best, I'd rather be able to get decent equipment. How AF was done in FFXI was in fact better, maybe you couldn't find help for it, maybe you were a bard and couldn't do anything by yourself.

"How AF was done in FFXI was in fact better..."

Really? so my opinion and anyone that agrees with FFXIV ways are better, are shot down by your "facts"?

Your opinion = Facts?
My opinion = Fanboy responses?

Whatever the case may be All jobs should have an item set you don't have to down a raid boss to obtain then have a BETTER piece you can obtain from said raid. Again disagree with me all you want, but not everyone has time to raid or want in some LS wait line to get something because they can't be on often. Which is the biggest issue with MMOs, FF and non FF. Casual players always get shafted and SE is going far from the casual player base.

Are you serious with this line? ROFL I'm sorry guy but where have you been since WoW released? Its the "casuals" that get the shaft these days? Pfft yea right...

I will state again, You will be getting a content finder in 2.0. You can love the hell out of such a feature that saves so much of your precious seconds.

9) Did I not say this isn't just SE's fault, however since you wanted to use the "don't like it don't join" card. I'll use something else. Ever thing that the reason FFXI's population dropped so much is because of that very same attitude among endgame shells? Ever thing that this will repeat itself in FFXIV unless changes are made?

Umm ok and WoW has the biggest playerbase filled with more elitiest shells(well guilds) than any MMO...So did the elitism magically help their subs? It's not something you can change unless you decide to join a casual shell or create your own casual shell. Why would a casual player join a hardcore shell in the first place?

It is in fact "If you don't like it don't join". Why would someone that hates hockey go put on some skates and tryout for the team? Get in where you fit in is the only logical answer. SE or any MMO developer can't help you. If you are just anti-social the umm... Ask yourself why play a MMO or again just use the content finder.

Some games employ a treasure system where everyone has a CHANCE to get something from a boss for their specific class. Boss drops nothing for your class, you get nothing. Simple Boss drops something you class can use (usually multiple items) You have a CHANCE to get an item, you might not need, what you get, you might need it or you might get nothing.

This gets rid of your system completely and makes players want to run the content more because 1 person can't control everything and everyone has a chance(large or small) to get an item. Its also more fair to everyone.

We won't get a need and greed style system until 2.0. The current server structure just won't allow it.

10) Apparently you don't know how to read what I type? I don't want to do events with complete strangers. I want to do things with my friends. Since you're not willing to read criticism I won't bother posting more on this matter since you likely are too busy thinking this game has no flaws. You have yet to mention 1 flaw about this game that you can think of.

Server Structure

It's all I need to list as most of my issues will never be solved until we get the 2.0 client.
I just don't agree with most of your criticisms on the game. Not every game is for everybody. You are a fan that comes off as your views are facts and you know best. I'm a "fanboy" that feels the game isn't as terrible as you make it seem to be. The game will never be able to attract and keep everybody.

11) PvP not a main focus? Then this game will already fail in that department and may as well not give us PvP at all. The majority of MMO players WANT GOOD PVP as well as PvE. So if you think otherwise maybe you should look at subscription/profit base of other mmos and see that they make more money in 1 month then SE can pull in from FFXI and FFXIV in 6-10 months combine.

Good PvP and being PvP based are two different things. Also I would hope MMos could rake in more even when combined...
FFXI is from the old generation where MMO genre was still a niche and FFXIV was a game released in its alpha stage.

SE is a company, if they want more profits(which is their goal, its not to make you happy) they will try to attract PvP players as well as it has much larger money generation possibilities, since PvE players probably won't leave the MMOs they are on for this one. That is a fact.

lol again with your "facts". The players that don't leave regardless is its Hardcore playerbase. They can be PvE lovers, PvP lovers, Lovers of the community, and the list goes on. By this hardcore has nothing to do with time or skill. It's just people that love the game for what it is and the future potential it holds. As that potential seems to lessen with expansions and content that is when such a base starts to dwindle. Most of FFXI playerbase was hardcore in this way, which is why it was so stabilized. Again having a solid playerbase is what any smart developer should be aiming for. trying to be the next WoW or something like a WoW won't help you. History is showing that with every WoW clone released.

"Not much balance needed" I take it you don't know that if you play PvP you aren't fighting some mindless mob that stands there looking at you as it tries to hit you, they will run to your side, your back cast spells from a distance, there is a lot that needs to be done, specially since the director himself said he wanted pvp in the game, he will have to balance things for it.

lol you keep trying to "son" me like as if you even have a clue about what is is I know. Of course some balancing is needed but the game won't be focused on PvP so it's safe to assume abilties won't be nerfed and buffed according to a PvP match.

12) Apparently you never player another MMO, for example WoW has HUGE PvE content and a larger PvE population then SE ever had on FFXI 10 times over, and the goal of SE is to make money. SE has been known to drastically change its direction. you know how FFXI went down the toilet with Abyssea, went from fair challenge to so easy a monkey could do it.

No WoW doesn't have HUGE PVE content since it will be outdated and useless like 2 months later and never done by anybody. Things are rarely done for "fun" in WoW just to get the next shiny.

Also, Do you remember how long it took for something like Abyssea to come out? FFXI was always praised for how the gear and content was not outshined a few months later but lasted years. Abyssea was a last effort to keep the old man pumping for some more years.

So SE could change its direction or are already giving up on the concept of trying to compete, either way this games population may not even grow when 2.0 comes due to SE's dev team being stubborn.

Again are you serious? so stubborn? Yoshi-P and his team has already added and planned on implementing features based on the communities feedback. You may can hate on SE as a company and be justfied, but Yoshi-P and team have been doing very well with FFXIV and actually listening.

13) HA, perhaps you need to think again on how SMALL FFXIV is, and the fact 2.0 has a chance it'll be overlooked, ignored and not even do anything? The MMO community has never been known to give second chances unless its a game they liked in the fist place, which in FFXIV's case, is very low and all of the people that liked the game are still playing.

Perhaps you need to stop thinking everything you keep rambling about are things not thought of. I'm very empathetic and try to understand any and all sides before I post. I simply don't agree with you. You have this fear that SE needs to be even more drastic and redo even more systems just gain a "HUGE" playerbase.

News Flash: Yoshi-P has already stated they only have ONE shot at doing this and can't afford to just keep redoing things.

14) Your last point made me laugh quite a bit and you underestimate both SE and WoW in this respect. A large amount of WoWs players for example are Ex-FF players who got fed up with SE's policies and direction, They all bought FFXIV I guarantee, if not all then most, in hopes it would be better and an improvement on FFXI and a game more suited for casual gamers, the majority of them left because it wasn't and they most likely won't come back regardless of what changes SE made.

Majority huh? That majority must have been around 300k as FFXI only reached about 800k and dropped down over time to about 500k. I guess that's majority though. FFXI was an old generation style MMO and yes WoW was born and created this new generation with it. Bringing the MMO genre out of a niche population. Tell me something I don't know please...

Kiddie player base huh...? You do realize the manner of which you replied shows signs of immaturity right? A mature person would have just stated what they thought, said they didn't agree like Majidah did in the post just after you and moved on. Instead you chose the immature road(which I LOVE to reply to by the way :P) and attempted to argue with every little thing I posted.

LMAO omg dude you are truly hilarious. I don't know if it's the lack of sleep or what but come on... A "Mature" person would have replied like Majidah? I'm not trying to offend the poster but when did one liners show a sign of having more maturity? Even when Majidah responded with more you still attacked at it with unneeded words.

I broke your long OP down into sections and replied to them. I never once trolled you but I guess that made me a fanboy instead right?

Glad to know that you love arguing with my "immature" posts that sectioned your statements down just because it was long and is in fact THE OP of the thread(which I thought you would want an actual response to and not some one liner). Next time I'll just give a one liner and lets see If I'm a troll or a fanboy next time around, ok? Maybe add some overused Internet meme to it.

I am not saying you aren't allowed to have your own opinion. After all my post was just that, my opinion and thoughts on some things and if you aren't willing to just ignore it which was the option, I am going to do exactly what you did and reply with my own. That is all

Everyone is allowed to have their opinion, however the ONLY way FFXIV will improve is if people state negative opinions and thoughts otherwise it not only wouldn't have gotten to the point it is at now, but it would never improve in the future.

However, you are saying I can have my opinion but just because my opinion doesn't agree with your criticisms I'm a fanboy. FFXIV will improve with constructive criticism and everybody agreeing with everything won't improve anything either.

2.0 Might not be that big an improvement and really, I'm sorry but when people say "then don't play" is a childish, irrational reply and something SE, I guarantee will not agree with you saying. They don't want people to leave any of their games.

"They don't need a large player base only a solid one" Wrong again, SE's biggest desire is to have MMOs with large player bases to turn larger profits, otherwise they wouldn't be pulling the stunt they are going to try to pull with 2.0 Which by the way has no guarantees on being the saving patch they promise it to be. It might be but there is no guarantee.

Again, Every game is meant to be played by everybody. If you think that is childish or irrational you need to grow up some more yourself. Also, having a "large" player base means nothing when they start leaving once the honeymoon phase is over.

If Yoshi-P's aim is to grab hold of everything with both arms he will have a lot of people fall through after the first month or two. A solid playerbase is what they need to be aiming for. It's how WoW became so successful. The game didn't start out the way we see it today. It grab hold of a solid playerbase and built on it.

[Fionlagh]

lol man... i admire you for taking that guy on, hes borderline deserving of getting flamed but you held it together and kept on point.

To the OP: you pre emptively addressed that disagreement would equate to fan boism..
you then labeled all arguements from repliers as fan boism...
this made it hard for me to not be biased agaisnt your points of view, but i really did consider every issue you addressed on their own merits
people... forumners.... stop with the convenient , mentally lazy labeling.

[whoopeeragon]

A few thoughts on this topic....

1. People are too fast at leaping at one another's throats for nothing simpler than having different opinions.

2. Apparently, disagreeing with someone, and when retorted to, they are labelled as defensive and angry. My my.

3. Even neutral people will be sucked in to be either 'with me' or 'against me'. No middle ground.

4. Advising solutions to a fellow forumer's personal problems appear to be seen as personal attacks and insults in an attempt to disregard that fellow forumer.

5. Answering a question with a question seems to be the habit nowadays instead of giving coherent answers...

Some responses have shown a quite neutral and mature way of responding to the OP, be it for or against. However, others seem to be a direct lash at either side, using terminology designed to strike out and start a greater turmoil. No names shall be mentioned, but you know who you are; it's not exactly helping either side sound the more credential when you act that way.

Topic creator, I respect your decision and opinion; even if I may disagree with the majority of them, I can give credit to those parts which are true. I only ask that you respect other opinion's as well. Your response to Majidah's more neutrally-grounded response was truly disrespectful; I did not see one hint of malevolence, disparity, harshness or otherwise negative reasonings from her posts, yet you treated it as such. Yes, she may have been blunt, but she said what she thought would be the optimal solution regarding what you have said, and what she herself believes.

The rest of you, just breeze off to Garuda's topic before coming back here for another healthy discussion. I've seen too many topics that diverge into a stand-off such as this; I don't want anymore. The game is fragile as it is; no need to add to it from outside.

[Andrien]

Someone should actually read all the patch notes, and all the dev letters before making a spectacle like this.

I'm talking to you OP.

I award you no "likes" and may god have mercy on your soul.

[ThePatriarch]

lmao of course it had to be a "fanboy response" right? Please look through my load of posts dating back to the days these forums first opened up. Then please tell me at least one post where I stated the game was perfect.



The only thing that will hinder some jobs in the future will be how SE designs the encounter itself. Tank also already gets priority over everyone yet even when a DD gets blasted the encounter still runs smoothly. A DD only dies in battle because of their own constant mistakes.

The "don't stand here" formula is mostly used in other MMOs anyway. The simple fact that you might have to kite something already makes FF mmos more tactical.

spam spam spam move spam spam spam...

That's the formula so many of those fast paced games run on.



I'm far from "ripping my hair out" I just don't agree with most of what you wrote. Disagreement either marks you as a troll or fanboy/whiteknight though, excuse me for forgetting that.

I would love to know how many of your DD buddies stay planted in front of the mob and for how long? Do they only use one combo that doesn't even need to be used? All I do is tank, as it's my favorite role, and have yet to see DD just standing right next to me.



The game is supposed to be about adventure and friends so PARTY > SOLO is the design. Unlike FFXI you can solo pretty damn well and make good progress every few hours you have. The change to leves and how they accumulate up to 99 have done me a great justice when soloing a class up to 50.

You also fail to realize just how there are millions that want to solo there are also millions that want to party and actually embrace their community. There are already a ton of games for those soloing millions so why do the other base need to be constantly giving the shaft?




Huh? What exactly is so hard about it? The only, I guess, radical change from class -> job is a ARC/BRD.
The system is already simple and if someone has such a hard time getting it then maybe it's not the creator that's stupid?



I'm just going to state that PLD is underpowered in its style of tanking a lot more than it is WAR is overpowered in general. They each have their own way of tanking and PLD falls short at it's way right now.

I'm not up for the PLD vs WAR debate. There are already threads for this, which is why I skipped the previous statement.



"How AF was done in FFXI was in fact better..."

Really? so my opinion and anyone that agrees with FFXIV ways are better, are shot down by your "facts"?

Your opinion = Facts?
My opinion = Fanboy responses?



Are you serious with this line? ROFL I'm sorry guy but where have you been since WoW released? Its the "casuals" that get the shaft these days? Pfft yea right...

I will state again, You will be getting a content finder in 2.0. You can love the hell out of such a feature that saves so much of your precious seconds.



Umm ok and WoW has the biggest playerbase filled with more elitiest shells(well guilds) than any MMO...So did the elitism magically help their subs? It's not something you can change unless you decide to join a casual shell or create your own casual shell. Why would a casual player join a hardcore shell in the first place?

It is in fact "If you don't like it don't join". Why would someone that hates hockey go put on some skates and tryout for the team? Get in where you fit in is the only logical answer. SE or any MMO developer can't help you. If you are just anti-social the umm... Ask yourself why play a MMO or again just use the content finder.



We won't get a need and greed style system until 2.0. The current server structure just won't allow it.



Server Structure

It's all I need to list as most of my issues will never be solved until we get the 2.0 client.
I just don't agree with most of your criticisms on the game. Not every game is for everybody. You are a fan that comes off as your views are facts and you know best. I'm a "fanboy" that feels the game isn't as terrible as you make it seem to be. The game will never be able to attract and keep everybody.




Good PvP and being PvP based are two different things. Also I would hope MMos could rake in more even when combined...
FFXI is from the old generation where MMO genre was still a niche and FFXIV was a game released in its alpha stage.



lol again with your "facts". The players that don't leave regardless is its Hardcore playerbase. They can be PvE lovers, PvP lovers, Lovers of the community, and the list goes on. By this hardcore has nothing to do with time or skill. It's just people that love the game for what it is and the future potential it holds. As that potential seems to lessen with expansions and content that is when such a base starts to dwindle. Most of FFXI playerbase was hardcore in this way, which is why it was so stabilized. Again having a solid playerbase is what any smart developer should be aiming for. trying to be the next WoW or something like a WoW won't help you. History is showing that with every WoW clone released.



lol you keep trying to "son" me like as if you even have a clue about what is is I know. Of course some balancing is needed but the game won't be focused on PvP so it's safe to assume abilties won't be nerfed and buffed according to a PvP match.



No WoW doesn't have HUGE PVE content since it will be outdated and useless like 2 months later and never done by anybody. Things are rarely done for "fun" in WoW just to get the next shiny.

Also, Do you remember how long it took for something like Abyssea to come out? FFXI was always praised for how the gear and content was not outshined a few months later but lasted years. Abyssea was a last effort to keep the old man pumping for some more years.



Again are you serious? so stubborn? Yoshi-P and his team has already added and planned on implementing features based on the communities feedback. You may can hate on SE as a company and be justfied, but Yoshi-P and team have been doing very well with FFXIV and actually listening.


Perhaps you need to stop thinking everything you keep rambling about are things not thought of. I'm very empathetic and try to understand any and all sides before I post. I simply don't agree with you. You have this fear that SE needs to be even more drastic and redo even more systems just gain a "HUGE" playerbase.

News Flash: Yoshi-P has already stated they only have ONE shot at doing this and can't afford to just keep redoing things.




Majority huh? That majority must have been around 300k as FFXI only reached about 800k and dropped down over time to about 500k. I guess that's majority though. FFXI was an old generation style MMO and yes WoW was born and created this new generation with it. Bringing the MMO genre out of a niche population. Tell me something I don't know please...



LMAO omg dude you are truly hilarious. I don't know if it's the lack of sleep or what but come on... A "Mature" person would have replied like Majidah? I'm not trying to offend the poster but when did one liners show a sign of having more maturity? Even when Majidah responded with more you still attacked at it with unneeded words.

I broke your long OP down into sections and replied to them. I never once trolled you but I guess that made me a fanboy instead right?

Glad to know that you love arguing with my "immature" posts that sectioned your statements down just because it was long and is in fact THE OP of the thread(which I thought you would want an actual response to and not some one liner). Next time I'll just give a one liner and lets see If I'm a troll or a fanboy next time around, ok? Maybe add some overused Internet meme to it.



However, you are saying I can have my opinion but just because my opinion doesn't agree with your criticisms I'm a fanboy. FFXIV will improve with constructive criticism and everybody agreeing with everything won't improve anything either.



Again, Every game is meant to be played by everybody. If you think that is childish or irrational you need to grow up some more yourself. Also, having a "large" player base means nothing when they start leaving once the honeymoon phase is over.

If Yoshi-P's aim is to grab hold of everything with both arms he will have a lot of people fall through after the first month or two. A solid playerbase is what they need to be aiming for. It's how WoW became so successful. The game didn't start out the way we see it today. It grab hold of a solid playerbase and built on it.

I didn't read any of this post. However, this is the single longest post on here that I've ever seen, mingled in with a plethora of quotes therein... You sir, have made an impressive post.